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2500

(516) 292-6963
22

23 Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript
produced by computer-assisted transcription.
24
25

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2502

1 (Case called.)

2 THE COURT: All right. Bring in the jury.

3 (Jury enters.)

4 THE COURT: Good morning, members of the jury.

5 Please be seated.

6 It is indeed gratifying that in one of the

7 largest jury selection districts in the United States, the

8 Eastern District of New York which as I told you several

9 times stretches from the New Jersey border of Staten

10 Island to Montauk Point, everybody is here earlier than on

11 time. Congratulations to yo u.

12 You may proceed.

13 MS. SCOTT: The government calls Wendi Springer.

14 W E N D I S P R I N G E R , having been first duly

15 sworn by the Clerk of the Court, was examined and

16 testified as follows:

17 THE WITNESS: Wendi Springer, S-P-R-I-N-G-E-R

18 DIRECT EXAMINATION

19 BY MS. SCOTT:

20 Q Could you tell us where you live, Ms. Springer?

21 A I live in Bohemia.

22 Q And how old are you?

23 A 30.
24 Q What do you do for a living now?
25 A I work for a large media company.

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1 Q How long have you been doing that?

2 A A year and four months.

3 Q Was there a time when you worked at a company called

4 Who's Who Worldwide Registry, Incorporated?

5 A Yes.

6 Q When did you begin working there?

7 A I believe it was the f irst week in January of '91.

8 Q And how long did you work there?

9 A Up until the day that the company was closed down.

10 Q When was that?

11 A Which was March 30th or 31st of '95.

12 Q So you worked there approximately four years?

13 A A little over four.

14 Q Now, what was your position when you started there in

15 1991?

16 A Receptionist and data entry.

17 Q And where was your office located at that time?

18 Where was the Who's Who Worldwide office located?

19 A 99 Seaview Boulevard.

20 Q Which town?

21 A In Port Washington.

22 Q Did your position change over the four years you were

23 there?
24 A Yes.
25 Q When did it change first?

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1 A Uhm, I would say a little after maybe seven months or

2 so.

3 Q And how did your job change at that time?

4 A When the company expanded my title of

5 receptionist/data entry was to be editorial assistant.

6 Q Where was the office located at the time when your

7 job changed?

8 A I believe we were in the process of moving and like I

9 said seven or eight months later it was at the Lake

10 Success office.

11 Q What were your responsibilities as an editorial

12 assistant?

13 A I was proofing the applicants, their information they

14 had sent in by mail or fax.

15 Q When you refer to "applicant," who do you mean?

16 A Potential customers.

17 Q Do you mean people who had applied for membership?

18 A Yes.

19 Q When memberships were sold to these companies.

20 MR. GEDULDIG: Objection to the form of the

21 question, Judge.

22 THE COURT: I didn't hear the question yet.

23 BY MS. SCOTT:
24 Q When memberships were sold to customers, how was the
25 contact initially made?

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1 MR. GEDULDIG: Now I object, Judge.

2 THE COURT: Are you objecting to the form? Why?

3 MR. GEDULDIG: It contains a fact not in

4 evidence. She said something was sold. No evidence has

5 there been that was sold, so she is testifying for the

6 witness.

7 MR. SCHOER: I join in the objection, Your Honor.

8 THE COURT: Did people become members of Who's

9 Who?

10 THE WITNESS: Yes.

11 THE COURT: How did they become members?

12 THE WITNESS: Through a sale.

13 THE COURT: Did they have to pay for it?

14 THE WITNESS: Yes.

15 THE COURT: Overruled. You may proceed.

16 BY MS. SCOTT:

17 Q How did these people who applied for membership first

18 contact through the company?

1 9 A Through phone -- through a mailing house they would,

20 I would assume, get a list.

21 MR. GEDULDIG: Objection to what she assumes.

22 THE COURT: When you assume --

23 THE WITNESS: Let me rephrase that. When a
24 mailing list was from a place called, I believe Antun's,
25 that is a company that provided a mailing list.

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1 THE COURT: Antun's?

2 THE WITNESS: Antun's.

3 THE COURT: How do you spell that? A-N-T-O-N or

4 U-N?

5 THE WITNESS: U-N, I believe. I'm not --

6 BY MS. SCOTT:

7 Q So in other words, letters were sent to these

8 companies?

9 A Letters were sent to the customers.

10 MR. JENKS: Objection.

11 THE COURT: Please rise, Mr. Jenks.

12 MR. JENKS: I'm sorry, objection.

13 THE COURT: Sustained as to form. Please strike

14 out the answer.

15 BY MS. SCOTT:

16 Q How did the company contact the people they were

17 attempting to sell these memberships to?

18 A By phone. From a lead card that was submitted

19 through the mail or by fax.

20 Q Now, what is a lead card?

21 A It's a card approximately (indicating) -- I don't

22 know the dimensions. It would have the potential

23 customer's name, occupation, company name, city, state,
24 address, industry, organization, expertise.
25 Q Who had filled out the information on the lead card?

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1 A The potential customer.

2 Q I'm showing you Government's Exhibit 9-D for

3 Identification.

4 What is that document?

5 A This is a lead card.

6 Q And how was it that the potential customers obtained

7 those lead cards and filled them out?

8 A It was through a mailing house.

9 Q How did each customer obtain each particular lead

10 card?

11 THE COURT: You have to go a little slower. I'm

12 having trouble keeping up.

13 Now, what number is this for Identification?

14 MS. SCOTT: 9-D for Identification.

15 THE COURT: Okay.

16 BY MS. SCOTT:

17 Q How did each customer obtain each of those lead

18 cards?

19 A It was sent with a letter, a nomination letter and

20 this card was included in the information that was sent to

21 -- or I could say solicitation mail that was sent to

22 them.

23 Q Did you see these solicitation letters sent out to
24 potential customers?
25 A Yes.

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1 Q Under what circumstances did you see these letters?

2 A When they came back as, y ou know, deceased, you know,

3 certain things like that. People would say the person has

4 been dead for 20 years, please do not, you know, send any

5 more correspondence, take us off your mailing list,

6 etcetera, etcetera.

7 Q What would you do with these letters that you would

8 see?

9 A They would be tossed outside the facility.

10 Q What were you --

11 THE COURT: Apparently it is getting

12 contentious. It's reaching epidemic proportions. I

13 cannot keep up with you. You will have to slow down, Ms.

14 Scott. BY MS. SCOTT:

15 Q Under what circumstances would you see these letters

16 that came into the company?

17 A If I was asked to sort the mail, if an overabundance

18 of it came in, I was asked at certain times to separate

19 the cards, separate, you know, separate what they called

20 NG, which were the nixies.

21 THE COURT: N-I-X-I-E -S?

22 THE WITNESS: I believe so. That's what

23 terminology was used. They were called nixies.
24 BY MS. SCOTT:
25 Q Now, I'm showing you Government's Exhibit 60-H for

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1 Identification.

2 Can you tell us what that document is?

3 A This is the solicitation letter that was sent.

4 Q How do you recognize that?

5 A I saw it three, four times a week.

6 MS. SCOTT: I offer Government's Exhibit 60-H.

7 THE COURT: Any objection?

8 MR. JENKS: I would like a voir dire, Your Honor.

9 THE COURT: Go ahead.

10 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

11 BY MR. JENKS:

12 Q Ms. Springer, I would ask you to take a look at

13 60-H.

14 Did you specifically see this letter?

15 A This one? Kathy Nielsen.

16 Q Yes.

17 A I saw -- I saw --

18 Q N o, I'm asking you --

19 A Did I particularly see the one addressed to?

20 Q Did you see the one addressed to who?

21 A Reid Rotatori.

22 THE COURT: You see, we don't know these names

23 and the reporter has to get down accurately every name
24 spelled correctly.
25 THE WITNESS: Okay.

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1 THE COURT: Okay.

2 BY MR. JENKS:

3 Q The question was -- withdrawn.

4 Take a look at 60-H, Government's Exhibit 60-H.

5 Do you see the date on that letter?

6 A Yes.

7 Q It's dated June 17, 1993?

8 A Umm-hmm.

9 THE COURT: Yes?

10 THE WITNESS: Umm-hmm.

11 BY MR. JENKS:

12 Q Is that yes?

13 A Yes, it is.

14 Q It's addressed to a Reid Rotatori; am I correct?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Do you know a Reid Rotatori?

17 A No , I do not.

18 Q Did you see this letter back in June of 1993 prior to

19 it being addressed to Reid Rotatori?

20 A No, because it was not mailed --

21 Q Your answer is no, ma'am?

22 A No.

23 Q Did you mail this letter out?
24 A No, I did not.
25 Q Did you prepare this letter?

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1 A No, I did not.

2 Q Do you know whether Reid Rotatori actually received

3 this letter?

4 A I wouldn't be able to tell you, no.

5 Q Did you at any time speak with Reid Rotatori?

6 A I spoke with thousands of customers. I wouldn't be

7 able to tell you if I spoke with him.

8 Q So you have no independent recollection?

9 A No, absolutely not.

10 Q Did you draft the contents of this letter?

11 A No, I did not.

12 Q Have you seen the content of this le tter?

13 A I've seen the format of these letters, yes.

14 Q Would it be fair to say that Who's Who Worldwide

15 Registry sent out numerous letters with content other than

16 what is contained in here?

17 A There was different formats. There was different

18 signatures. Kathy Nielsen was one of the people at that

19 time where they were using that name. There was also a

20 Nancy Moore who they used, that they used who did not

21 exist.

22 MR. TRABULUS: I move to strike.

23 THE COURT: Read it back, please.
24 (Record read.)
25 THE COURT: Is the answer yes to that?

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1 THE WITNESS: Yes.

2 THE COURT: The entire answer previously is

3 stricken. The jury is instructed to disregard it.

4 BY MR. JENKS:

5 Q You didn't sign this letter; am I correct?

6 A No, I did not. I believe Liz Sautter signed these.

7 Q Do you know who signed the letter for sure?

8 A I believe Liz Sautter did. I'm not saying -- I'm not

9 sure she signed this particular letter, but there were

10 letters signed with her signature under a person's name,

11 whether it be Kathy Nielsen, whether it be Nancy Moore or

12 whatever names were used.

13 Q You didn't sign this letter, did you?

14 A Absolutely not.

15 Q You didn't prepare the letter, correct?

16 A No, I did not.

17 Q You didn't mail the letter, correct?

18 A I didn't mail it.

19 Q When was the first time you saw this letter prior to

20 your testifying here today?

21 A I haven't seen this particular letter.

22 Q All right.

23 A As I explained before.
24 MR. JENKS: I have no further questions. I
25 object to the introduction of this letter with respect to



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1 this witness' testimony.

2 THE COURT: I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.

3 MR. JENKS: Based on this witness' testimony, I

4 object to the introduction of this letter.

5 THE COURT: Are you attempting to offer this as a

6 business record?

7 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, we'll withdraw it and

8 attempt to enter it later.

9 THE COURT: I'll attempt you to lay a foundation

10 if you want to do that. It's up to you.

11 MS. SCOTT: May I confer for a moment, Your

12 Honor?

13 THE COURT: Sure.

14 (Counsel confer.)

15 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, we'll withdraw the

16 exhibit and attempt to put it in later in the case with

17 another custodian.

18 THE COURT: Very well.

19 MS. SCOTT: Thank you.

20 DIRECT EXAMINATION

21 BY MS. SCOTT: (Continued .)

22 Q Now, Ms. Springer, going back to the lead card. When

23 a person has filled out the lead card and mailed it into
24 the company, what happened to it at that point?
25 A At that point they were sorted by on the right -- on

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1 this corner over here there is a code, this one in

2 particular is ML-F. I don't know what the particular

3 coding means. This coding could have been sent to people

4 in the health care industry. A code NN could be in the

5 engineering field. There were certain codes that indicate

6 industry that the letters were addressed to.

7 THE COURT: Excuse me for one minute. I do not

8 understand. Who makes these lead cards? How do they

9 start out these lead cards? Where are they, in your

10 office?

11 THE WITNESS: What happens is --

12 THE COURT: No, listen to me, will you? These

13 lead cards that you have, are they forms that are in your

14 office in blank?

15 THE WITNESS: We had some blank ones, but no,

16 they were done, as I explained before, from a mailing

17 house.

18 THE COURT: Some other company produced them?

19 THE WITNESS: Produced them.

20 THE COURT: And sends them to you?

21 THE WITNESS: Sent them to the customers, the

22 potential customers.

23 THE COURT: How does the mailing company know who
24 to send it to?
25 THE WITNESS: They have lists. Mailing lists.

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1 Have you ever received anything in the mail where

2 people --

3 MR. TRABULUS: Objection.

4 MR. JENKS: Objection.

5 THE COURT: Listen to me. I'm trying to find out

6 and maybe clear it up for the jur y also. These lead cards

7 are -- start off in the mailing list company's

8 headquarters, correct?

9 THE WITNESS: Yes.

10 THE COURT: And according to a list they are

11 mailed to potential customers. Are they mailed with the

12 solicitation letter?

13 THE WITNESS: Yes.

14 THE COURT: And then who fills out these lead

15 cards?

16 THE WITNESS: Excuse me, potential customers.

17 THE COURT: And then the potential customer does

18 what with the lead card?

19 THE WITNESS: Either she would fax them back or

20 send them back to the mail.

21 THE COURT: Back where?

22 THE WITNESS: Whatever address we were at.

23 THE COURT: Not back to the printing companies?
24 THE WITNESS: No.
25 THE COURT: Back to your company?

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1 THE WITNESS: The ba ck of the card over here has

2 the address of Who's Who Worldwide.

3 THE COURT: But what is written on the card is

4 done by the customer?

5 THE WITNESS: Yes.

6 THE COURT: Okay.

7 BY MS. SCOTT:

8 Q And Ms. Springer, we'll come back to the codes later

9 on in the testimony.

10 Now, you mentioned that when the lead cards came

11 back into the company they were sorted?

12 A Yes.

13 Q After they were sorted, what happened to them?

14 A They were rubber banded and put in a locked drawer.

15 Q What happened after that?

16 A They were distributed.

17 Q Who were they distributed to?

18 A The group leaders to pass out.

19 Q Who were they passed out to?

20 A The telemarketers, salespeople.

21 Q What did the salespeople do with them when they

22 received these lead cards?

23 A They would make phone calls.
24 Q Who wo uld they call?
25 A They would call the customer's name, whatever phone

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1 number was on here and asked for the individual who filled

2 out the card.

3 Q Once they got in touch with that individual by

4 telephone, what did they do?

5 A They would read from a pitch trying to sell them a

6 membership.

7 MR. JENKS: Judge, I would object to this

8 testimony unless it is specific to an individual

9 defendant. I would ask that the testimony be stricken as

10 to what the general operation of the salesperson was.

11 There's been no testimony that this woman has worked in

12 the sales department or made any sales.

13 MR. NEVILLE: Your Honor, I don't object to the

14 word "sales" being used.

15 THE COURT: First of all, I've told you, Counsel,

16 not to make thes e speeches. If you have an objection just

17 make the objection and if I want to know why, I'll ask you

18 why. I'm not bashful, Mr. Jenks.

19 MR. JENKS: I understand, Your Honor.

20 THE COURT: Overruled.

21 Was there an answer to the question?

22 MS. SCOTT: Can you please read back the

23 question.
24 THE COURT: Please don't.
25 (Record read.)

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1 A They would read from a pitch which was in their

2 cubicles and they would jot down information that the

3 person was telling them.

4 MR. LEE: I object, Your Honor.

5 THE COURT: On what grounds?

6 MR. LEE: I think there's testimony about a

7 nonverbal assertion which does not pass the hearsay rule.

8 THE COURT: Overruled.

9 Ms. Springer, when you are testifying, what is

10 the basis for the information as to what these salespeople

11 do?

12 THE WITNESS: What knowledge do I have on what

13 the salespeople did?

14 THE COURT: Yes. How do you know what they do?

15 THE WITNESS: I was in that office for years. I

16 saw it. I heard it with my ears.

17 THE COURT: Overruled.

18 MR. DUNN: I would object because on how much she

19 could hear. We're talking about an entire pitch. I would

20 ask you to pursue that, if you would.

21 THE COURT: Your objection is overruled.

22 Go ahead.

23 MS. SCOTT: Thank you, Your Honor.
24 I believe Ms. Springer did answer the question I
25 asked, so I'll move on to the next question.

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1 THE COURT: Good. We are making progress

2 rapidly. At this rate we'll be here all winter.

3 I'm only kidding. Go ahead.

4 BY MS. SCOTT:

5 Q Ms. Springer, after a telemarketer made a sale to a

6 customer, what did the salesperson do to record the sale?

7 A They had a sales sheet where they would write the

8 customer's name, the membership, the price and at that

9 time they would have to have it signed by one of the group

10 leaders to validate that there was a sale since they were

11 basically on quotas. They had to meet a certain quota.

12 So the group leader would have to decide --

13 MR. SCHOER: Objection, Judge. This is

14 unresponsive.

15 THE COURT: Read it back.

16 (Record read.)

17 THE COURT: What did the salesperson do to record

18 the sale?

19 THE WITNESS: They wrote it on a sales sheet, had

20 a sales sheet which would have the day on it and they

21 would write like I was explaining before, they would write

22 the customer's name, they would write the sale amount and

23 what the membership duration was, if it was a lifetime
24 membership, if it was a five-year membership, three-year
25 membership. An associate membership or if they just

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1 wanted a wall plaque and that's what would happen.

2 BY MS. SCOTT:

3 Q Now, Ms. Springer, you mentioned a sales sheet.

4 MR. NELSON: Your Honor, I would ask the Court

5 rule on the application, that the Court strike the answer

6 to the prior question.

7 THE COURT: That answer that goes into what a

8 group leader does, that part is stricken.

9 MR. NELSON: Thank you, Your Honor.

10 BY MS. SCOTT:

11 Q Ms. Springer, I'm showing you Government's Exhibit

12 9-C for Identification.

13 What is that document?

14 A This is an order form.

15 Q Now, what is an order form?

16 A The order form is written up while the person is on

17 the phone with a customer. Usually it wasn't only because

18 the customers were talking quick so they would write it on

19 scrap paper and then they would write their sales out. A

20 lot of them would do it while they were in the smoke room

21 and they would have time to do it. Their job was to be on

22 the phone at all times, that was their instructions and

23 they would write the orders up, some of them would write
24 them two minutes after they wrote it, or write on the
25 phone with the customers who they knew weren't going to be

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1 sold. This is the order form.

2 Q So did this order form represent a particular sale?

3 A Yes, it does.

4 Q And the information, who writes the information on

5 that order form?

6 A The salesperson.

7 Q Now, what information is recorded on the order form?

8 A Company name, the person's name, how they want their

9 wall plaque to appear. They have a current organization

10 which would be the company, they have street address,

11 city, state, zip, phone number, they have a ship to, a

12 bill and a ship to area, and then they have the business,

13 they have the product that they provide or sell. They

14 have the type of organization, the area of distribution,

15 expertise, the parent organization, favorite book and

16 author or favorite book author.

17 Q And this is information about the customer that was

18 recorded on the order form?

19 A Yes, umm-hmm.

20 Q And what other information about the sales are

21 recorded on the form?

22 A What is checked off. There's a section, a time year

23 membership, five-year, three-year , one-year associate,
24 wall plaque and there is the registry.
25 Q So the salesperson would check off the length of the

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1 membership that had been purchased?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Would the salesperson also report the method of

4 purchase, method of payment rather?

5 A Yes, credit card.

6 Q After this information was placed on these order

7 forms, what happened to the order forms?

8 A The order forms were picked up. They were put in a

9 bin, each salesperson had their own bin, and they would be

10 picked up within 15 minutes to a half-hour. It could be

11 when somebody was available, usually within a half-hour,

12 somebody would be told to go around in charge of picking

13 up the order forms.

14 Q What would happen after the order forms were picked

15 up?

16 A Go in my room.

17 Q What would you do with them?

18 A Put in a file cabinet. When I was able to look them

19 over, proof them, edit them, I would do them.

20 Q What was your responsibility with respect to these

21 order forms?

22 A To make sure of the qualifications. To make sure the

23 spelling was accurate. To make sure that the person was,
24 you know, reputable, I would say, that they were a
25 business leader.

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1 Q Reputable enough to become a member of Who's Who

2 Worldwide; is that correct?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Now, once you had checked the information on the

5 order form, what did you do with the order form?

6 A They would be distributed to the girls for data entry

7 and I would also do the data entry as well.

8 Q So after you had signed of f on the order forms, you

9 sent them to the data entry people?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Now, what was the purpose of sending them to data

12 entry?

13 A They would put the information in the database and at

14 the end of the day we would run the invoices and they

15 would be mailed out.

16 Q The data entry people issued the invoices; is that

17 correct?

18 A They were printed out and then whoever was available

19 to, would put the mail together. Sometimes it was three

20 or four girls. Sometimes, you know, it was two.

21 Depending on how many invoices were generated.

22 Q (Handing.) I'm showing you Government's Exhibit 9-B

23 for Identification.
24 Can you tell us what that is?
25 A This is one of the invoices that would be attached to

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1 this order fo rm. Actually the same individual.

2 Q And is that invoice, was that invoice issued after

3 the information in the order form had been given to the

4 data entry people?

5 A Yes.

6 Q What happened to the invoices after they were

7 generated?

8 A They were, like I explained, there was girls that

9 would -- I didn't explain this part. What they would do

10 most predominantly, all of the orders that came in were by

11 credit card. So there would be a stamp as per your

12 instructions, I forget what the exact terminology is, it

13 would say it had been changed to your credit card. At the

14 bottom it would say "please --" this is split billed, this

15 says "please correct any errors in the text or gold

16 remittance company." That would be provided for by check,

17 as I explained most of these orders that came in were by

18 credit card.

19 Q We'll go throu gh that in just a minute,

20 Ms. Springer. But once these invoices had been generated

21 by the company, what happened to the invoice?

22 A They were put in the envelope, they were -- you are

23 talking about the order form with this copy? That's what
24 you are asking?
25 Q I'm talking about two separate things. First were

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1 they sent to somebody?

2 A Yes, to the people who signed up, the members.

3 Q They were sent to the customer?

4 A Yes.

5 Q How did the company maintain their records of the

6 sale?

7 A This was their document and it would be bundled up,

8 alphabetized by the filing person and they would be put in

9 the appropriate files alphabetically.

10 Q And were other supporting documents attached to each

11 invoice and order form?

1 2 A Yes. Usually, you know, the card would be attached

13 on the back like this -- I forgot one thing, sorry. When

14 -- at the end of the day or whoever, the next morning or

15 a lot of times I would bring them home with me, I didn't

16 have a lot of time sometimes to do it during work, the

17 orders would be checked for spelling, especially the

18 person's name, you know, for accuracy, for the wall

19 plaque, and all the people, I mean people are human, they

20 make errors while doing data entry, and we had to watch

21 for errors. So somebody -- it was usually me who had to

22 proof it again to make sure that the data entry person,

23 you know, was accurate, and if not it was given back to
24 the appropriate person who put in the information
25 incorrectly so they could learn from their mistakes, and

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1 the information was changed and they went back to be

2 filed.

3 Q Once you had proofread that invoice, how did the

4 company then record the sale? What documents were stored

5 with the company to record the sale?

6 A There was a credit card transmittal slip that usually

7 would be attached to the front (indicating) and the card

8 would be on the back, if there was a card, and that would

9 be it. Just the pink form and the order form.

10 Q Pink form, order form, credit card slip and lead

11 card?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And any other documentation that related to the

14 transaction?

15 A There would be a code. This code where it says,

16 okay, 91-157, is the approval that they got from the bank

17 or American Express or Visa, whatever, whatever credit

18 card they paid by.

19 Q I'm sorry.

20 I'm showing you Government's Exh ibit 9-A.

21 THE COURT: 9 what?

22 MS. SCOTT: 9-A for Identification.

23 BY MS. SCOTT:
24 Q Tell us what that is?
25 A The credit card transmittal and this one actually

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 belongs to this one because I matched up the number,

2 authorization number and the transaction number.

3 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, I'm going to show

4 Ms. Springer a number of exhibits and I will have to read

5 off their numbers into the record.

6 I will be showing Ms. Springer Government's

7 Exhibits 3-A, 3-B, 3-C, 3-D and 3-E.

8 Government's Exhibits 4-A, 4-C, 4-D and 4-E.

9 Government's Exhibits 5 --

10 THE COURT: You have to go slower.

11 MS. SCOTT: Government's Exhibits 5-A, 5-B, 5-C,

12 5-D.

13 6-A, 6-B, 6-C, 6-D, 6-E, 6-F, 6-G and 6-H.

14 7-A, 7-B, 7-C, and 7-D .

15 8-A, 8-B, 8-C, 8-D, 8-E, 8-F.

16 9-A, 9-B, 9-C, 9-D, 9-E, 9-F, 9-G, 9-H.

17 10-A, 10-B, 10-C.

18 11-A, 11-B, 11-C, 11-D, 11-E.

19 12-A, 12-B, 12-C, 12-D, 12-E, 12-F, 12-G, 12-H.

20 13-A, 13-B, 13-C, 13-D, 13-E, 13-F, 13-G.

21 14-A, 14-B, 14-C, 14-D.

22 15-A, 15-B, 15-C, 15-D.

23 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, may I list the numbers as
24 A through D.
25 THE COURT: Yes.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 MS. SCOTT: Okay. 16-A through 16-D.

2 17-A through 17-G.

3 18-A through 18-H.

4 19-A through 19-D.

5 20-A through 20-H.

6 21-A through 21-D.

7 22-A through 22-D.

8 23-A through 23-D.

9 24-A through 24-F.

10 25-A through 25-D.

11 26-A through 26-D.

12 27-A through 27-D.

13 28-A through 28-E.

14 29-A through 29-D.

15 30-A through 30-D.

16 31-A through 31-D.

17 33-A through 33-E.

18 34-A through 34-D.

19 35-A through 35-D.

20 36-A through 36-D.

21 37-A through 37-D.

22 38-A through 38 E.

23 Skipping down to 39-D.
24 40-A through 40-D.
25 41-A through 41-E.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 42-A to 42-D.

2 And 42-G, 42-H, and 42-I.

3 43-A through 43-D.

4 44-A through 44-G, 44-H also.

5 45-A through 45-E.

6 46-A through 46-D.

7 47-A through 47-D.

8 48-A through 48-D.

9 49-A through 49-G.

10 50-A through 50-F.

11 51-A through 51-E.

12 52-A through 52-F.

13 53-A through 53-D.

14 54-A through 54-D.

15 And skipping down to 54-I.

16 55-A through 55-C.

17 56-A.

18 57-A through 57-D.

19 58-A through 59-D.

20 60-A through 60 G.

21 61-A.

22 62-A through 62-D.

23 63-A through 63-D.
24 MR. JENKS: Your Honor, I'm sorry, I'm lost.
25 Your Honor, if she could slow down.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 THE COURT: Well, I'm trying hard but I can't

2 succeed. You have to slow down.

3 MR. JENKS: If she could just pick up from 60-A.

4 MR. TRABULUS: Actually 59.

5 MS. SCOTT: 59A through 59-D.

6 60-A through 60 G.

7 61-A.

8 62-A through 62-D.

9 63-A through 63-D.

10 65-B, C and-D.

11 And 66 C.

12 67-A through 67-D. And that's it.

13 BY MS. SCOTT:

14 Q Now, Ms. Springer, I'm showing you the documents

15 I've just read into the record for Identification.

16 Have you had a chance to look at those documents

17 before testifying tod ay?

18 A Yes.

19 Q What are they?

20 A These are order forms, credit card numbers,

21 authorizations. Same as this (indicating.)

22 Q Are there packages of several pieces of paper?

23 A Yep.
24 Q And what does each package represent?
25 A (Perusing.) This is one member, this is another

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 member.

2 THE COURT: No, you have to identify what each

3 package is.

4 THE WITNESS: Okay.

5 THE COURT: You have to name what it is.

6 THE WITNESS: Okay.

7 The order form. You need the names also?

8 THE COURT: No, on each package are there certain

9 forms?

10 THE WITNESS: Yes.

11 THE COURT: What forms are in each package?

12 THE WITNESS: The lead card, the order form and

13 this is an invoice with a credit card approval on it and

14 the information that is sent out to the customer.

15 MR. LEE: Judge, could we have her read the

16 exhibit number and letter while she is identifying

17 something. I don't know what exhibit she is talking

18 about.

19 THE COURT: No, it's not necessary. I'm not

20 going to go through all of these numbers.

21 MR. LEE: Just what she says.

22 THE COURT: No.

23 Does every package you've named include a lead
24 card, order form, invoice with credit card approval and
25 what else? What did you say?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 THE WITNESS: Credit card authorization.

2 THE COURT: Credit card authorization.

3 So every one of those packages has a lead card,

4 order form, invoice?

5 MS. SCOTT: Generally, Your Honor, every package

6 includes an invoice, order form, lead card and credit card

7 receipt. Some of the packages do not, but each -- I was

8 going to ask Ms. Springer, does each of these packets

9 represent a sale?

10 THE WITNESS: Yes.

11 BY MS. SCOTT:

12 Q Do each of these packets represent a sale of a

13 membership to a company?

14 A Yes.

15 Q By the company Who's Who Worldwide; is that correct?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Now, are all the supporting documentation that Who's

18 Who Worldwide had in connection with each of these sales,

19 attached to each of the documents that you have up there

20 in front of you?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Now, were these documents kept in the course of the

23 regularly conducted business activity of Who's Who
24 Worldwide?
25 A Yes, they were.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 THE COURT: You have to slow down, M s. Scott.

2 MS. SCOTT: Would you like me to repeat the

3 question, Your Honor?

4 THE COURT: Yes, I would. I'm requesting you,

5 especially for you, to slow down. I'm not making an

6 impression.

7 MS. SCOTT: Okay.

8 BY MS. SCOTT:

9 Q Were these documents kept in the course of the

10 regularly conducted business activity of Who's Who

11 Worldwide?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Was it the regular business practice of Who's Who

14 Worldwide to keep and make these records?

15 A Yes.

16 MS. SCOTT: I offer the exhibits that we just

17 read into the record, Your Honor.

18 THE COURT: Any objection?

19 MR. JENKS: I object and I would like a voir

20 dire.

21 THE COURT: Go ahead.

22 MR. JENKS: I would like the Exhibits 9-A through

23 9-D, I believe. I would use them for the purposes of this
24 voir dire.
25 THE COURT: Good thinking. You are not going to

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 go through each one of them, will you, Mr. Jenks?

2 MR. JENKS: No, I don't want to be here until

3 June, Your Honor.

4 THE COURT: Good thinking. Very good.

5 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

6 BY MR. JENKS:

7 Q Let's talk, Ms. Springer, about 9-D for

8 Identification.

9 MR. JENKS: Do you have that, Ms. Scott?

10 MS. SCOTT: It's up there.

11 MR. JENKS: It's up there.

12 Let me make sure that I'm with the right

13 exhibit. Let's take a look at 9-D.

14 Do you have it in there?

15 THE WITNESS: That's 9-D?

16 MR. JENKS: Is that it?

17 THE WITNESS: Yes.

18 MR. JENKS: This is 9. They are out of the book.

19 THE WITNESS: Yes.

20 BY MR. JENKS:

21 Q Now, 9-D for Identification is a so-called "lead

22 card;" am I correct?

23 A It's not a so-called, it's a lead card.
24 Q It's called a lead card?
25 A This is called a lead card, yes.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 Q Let's first go over your testimony with respect to

2 that lead card.

3 The lead card was prepared by a publishing house?

4 A I don't know what the terminology is. I believe it

5 is called a mail house.

6 Q A mail house?

7 A Umm-hmm.

8 Q You didn't prepare the lead card, did you?

9 A No, I did not personally.

10 Q Somebody else did, correct?

11 A Umm-hmm.

12 Q Who's Who Worldwide did not prepare the lead card at

13 1983 Marcus Avenue, did they?

14 A I believe what they did they did a draft of it and

15 got a mail house to produce the letter and the card.

16 Q But none of those exhibits t here are a draft of the

17 lead card, right?

18 A These cards and these letters are not manufactured at

19 1983 Marcus Avenue, if that is what you are trying to get

20 at.

21 Q So let me make sure I understand. First the lead

22 card. It's made someplace else, the lead card?

23 A Yes.
24 Q And then it's sent to a customer; am I right?
25 A Yes.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2536
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1 Q You're in the office of public administration?

2 A I'm in the office of administration.

3 Q Not of public administration?

4 A Their terminology, Mr. Gordon's terminology, was,

5 right, what you said, public.

6 Q You testified at a deposition back in 1993; am I

7 correct?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Did you testify that you were a member of the office

10 of public administration?

11 A Yes.

12 Q Now, the lead card is prepared by an outside agency,

13 right?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And you didn't prepare it, correct?

16 A No.

17 Q You didn't draft the card; am I right?

18 A No, I did not draft it.

19 Q When it is prepared it is then sent by mail to a

20 proposed customer, I take it?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And that customer fills the information in on the

23 card, right?
24 A Yes.
25 Q You didn't fill the information in on the card?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2537
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1 A No, I did not. No.

2 Q And that card comes back.

3 A Umm-hmm.

4 Q Right, to Who's Who Worldwide?

5 A Yes, it does.

6 Q And when that card comes back it is given to a

7 salesperson, right?

8 A They are sorted first and then they are bundled up

9 and then given, distribute d to the salespeople, yes.

10 Q Do you sort them?

11 A On many occasions I sorted them.

12 Q You sorted them?

13 A Umm-hmm.

14 Q Do you give them to the salesperson?

15 A If I was asked to I would, but usually that would be

16 asked by Liz. Mr. Gordon would ask Liz to do that or if

17 Liz wasn't there I would pass them on to, let's say, Tara,

18 whoever it maybe, whoever the group leader was. But he

19 was there usually to give the cards out.

20 Q Did you have anything to do with the filling in the

21 information on the lead card?

22 A No.

23 Q Did you have anything to do with the preparing of the
24 lead card that goes to the customer?
25 A No.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2538
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1 Q So when you get back this lead card, this is after it

2 has gone to a salesperson and it is brought back to you,

3 correct?

4 A I saw the cards before. If I was asked to sort the

5 mail -- I seen a lot of them, yes.

6 Q Do you know whether any of the information on those

7 lead cards that Ms. Scott has shown you, all the exhibits

8 there, whether or not any of the information on those

9 cards is true and accurate or correct?

10 A On the cards?

11 Q Yes.

12 A I don't know these individuals to know if they are or

13 they are not.

14 Q And you never spoke to any of those individuals?

15 A I spoke to a lot of people. I never sold them a

16 membership, I never wrote up an order form.

17 Q Did you ever speak to any of those individuals on

18 those exhibits?

19 A In these?

20 Q Yes.

21 A I don't believe I spoke to a Rita Rieger or a Wilma

22 Pincham or Reid Rotatori.

23 THE COURT: Excuse me, what are those names you

24 just mentioned?
25 THE WITNESS: These names on the exhibits --

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 THE COURT: How do you spell them?

2 THE WITNESS: Rita R-i-e-g-e-r, W-i-l-m-a

3 P-i-n-c-h-a-m, R-e-i-d R-o-t-a-t-o-r-i.

4 And if I did speak with them I would have to be a

5 genus to remember these peoples' names. I speak to a lot

6 of people and did at Who's Who.

7 Q So it would be fair to say you never spoke to any of

8 them or you don't know whether you spoke to any of those

9 people in any of those exhibits?

10 A There is a possibility, but maybe I didn't.

11 Q And maybe not?

12 A Maybe not.

13 Q You don't know as you sit here whether the

14 information contained in those exhibits are, in fact, true

15 or accurate; am I correct?

16 A Right.

17 Q Because you don't know firsthand, right?

18 A I don't know the people individually, so I wouldn't

19 know if the information they wrote down is true.

20 Q And the lead card that we've been talking about which

21 is 9-D, in front of you, you didn't prepare and you didn't

22 fill the information out on that car card, correct?

23 A No, you asked me that already, I said no.
24 Q I asked you again, your answer is no?
25 A Correct.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2540
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1 Q Let's look at 9-C, okay.

2 A 9-C.

3 Q 9-C you testified was an order form; am I right?

4 A Yes (perusing.)

5 Q Do you know whose handwriting 9-C is in?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And how do you know that handwriting?

8 A Because first it says name, second, I know the

9 individual, and third, if any of those salespeople were to

10 write up an ord er form, they wouldn't even have to sign

11 their name because I knew their handwriting.

12 MR. JENKS: I will move to strike the answer as

13 unresponsive, Your Honor.

14 THE COURT: Your motion is denied.

15 BY MR. JENKS:

16 Q Well, then I'll ask you this, Ms. Springer. Please

17 listen to the question and if it calls for a yes or no

18 answer, can you answer the question yes or no?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Do you know whose handwriting is in that form?

21 A Yes, I do.

22 Q Is it your handwriting; yes or no?

23 A Part is my handwriting, yes.
24 Q Is it your handwriting, yes or no, on the card?
25 A On the card, no.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2541
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1 Q On the order form?

2 A Like I explained to you, yes. Some of the

3 information is in my handwriting. I said it to you.

4 Q Which information is in your handwriting?

5 A Major product, acute care. This is my handwriting.

6 The red is in my handwriting.

7 Q The red writing on these things is in your

8 handwriting?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Is your handwriting on all of those exhibits you

11 examined, the orders forms?

12 A A lot of them, yes.

13 Q A lot of them.

14 A Most of them, yes. If it didn't have anything to

15 have altered on it, I wouldn't change it.

16 Q All right.

17 Let me ask you this, did you prepare the order

18 form itself?

19 A No.

20 Q The order form was sent to a potential customer; am I

21 correct?

22 A The order form was sent to a potential? No, the

23 order form was not sent to a potential customer.
24 Q The order form was prepared in Who's Who Worldwide?
25 A Yes, it was, umm-hmm.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT R EPORTER
2542
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1 Q You didn't prepare them though, generally, a

2 salesperson prepared them?

3 A No, I did not prepare them.

4 Q Would it be fair to say that salespeople generally

5 prepared the order forms?

6 A Yes.

7 Q All right.

8 And the order forms were prepared on information

9 that they obtained through speaking with the customer on

10 the telephone, correct, generally?

11 A Umm-hmm.

12 Q You generally didn't speak with the customer on the

13 telephone to prepare the information in the order form,

14 correct?

15 A Right, but there were a lot of occasions where I did

16 speak with a customer because they didn't care for the way

17 that the salesperson had wrote up the information.

18 Q You spoke to them later, correct?

19 A Yes, later.

20 Q Did you draft and prepare this order form?

21 A No, I did not.

22 Q Were you in charge of keeping the order forms, you

23 specifically, or was it Liz Sautter?
24 Let me withdraw the question.
25 Did Liz Sautter head the Office of Public

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2543
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1 Affairs?

2 A Yes, she did.

3 Q She was your boss, correct?

4 A Supervisor. I wouldn't say boss. Mr. Gordon was the

5 boss.

6 Q But she was your supervisor, right?

7 A Yes.

8 Q You reported directly to her?

9 A Umm-hmm.

10 THE COURT: Excuse me, you can't say umm-hmm.

11 A Yes.

12 THE COURT: Because we don't know what that

13 means. You have to say yes, no, maybe, I don't know, I

14 don't remember, but not that sound.

15 THE WITNESS: Got it?

16 A Yes. I reported to Liz.

17 Q So it was Liz Sautter who kept these ord er forms at

18 Who's Who Worldwide.

19 Was she in charge of maintaining and keeping

20 them?

21 A No, I maintained them.

22 Q How about Liz Sautter?

23 A Occasionally if I was busy, she would count them to
24 make sure that the sales matched up with the sales sheet
25 and the actual orders written for that day were physically

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2544
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1 counted. There were times she did. There were days also

2 that people get sick and have to take off a day and I'm

3 sure she did maintain it at some point, yes.

4 Q Let's talk about 9-B which is one of the invoices

5 that is in the package.

6 A Yes.

7 Q Four documents in the package, right? There are four

8 documents you've testified to generally or generally are

9 in each package. There's a lead card and an order form.

10 Those are the first two, we've discussed them?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And then there's an invoice which I ask you to take a

13 look at in 9-B. This is an invoice to a person by the

14 name of Rita Rieger, correct?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And did you prepare this invoice, Ms. Springer?

17 A Did I prepare it?

18 Q Yes.

19 A Did I actually print them out of a computer and have

20 them generated?

21 Q Right.

22 A Good possibility.

23 Q Did you do this one?
24 A I couldn't tell you. I did thousands of them a week,
25 how could you --

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2545
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1 Q I'm asking you. Did you prepare this one?

2 A This one? I wouldn't be able to tell you if I

3 prepared this one or if I didn't prepare this one. This

4 is in 1993. Do you remember on this date what you were

5 wearing? I don't mean to seem nasty or anything, but this

6 is the kind of question you are asking me.

7 MR. JENKS: I'm going to ask that that be

8 stricken, Your Honor, and will you instruct the witness,

9 sir, to answer the questions as they are posed.

10 THE COURT: Motion granted. Ms. Springer --

11 THE WITNESS: Let me say, he's asking me a

12 question --

13 THE COURT: Ms. Springer, cease, stop. Listen to

14 me. You will listen to the questions and answer

15 responsively. Just what you are asked. That's all.

16 Do you understand that, Ms. Springer?

17 THE WITNESS: I understand.

18 THE COURT: Okay.

19 BY MR. JENKS:

20 Q Did you prepare this invoice, 9-B?

21 A I wouldn't be able to tell you if I prepared this

22 one.

23 Q Did you prepare any of them that are in that book?
24 A Yes -- well, you are saying in this book. I'm not

25 sure. I should have let you finish.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2546
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1 Q In all the exhibits that Ms. Scott had shown you, did

2 you personally prepare any of those invoices?

3 A Yes.

4 Q You personally prepared them and sent them out?

5 A I wouldn't say -- if my handwriting is on these

6 forms, some of these forms. I wouldn't be able to tell

7 you if I did actually, you know, fold them, stuff them

8 with the literature and send them. I wouldn't be able to

9 tell you.

10 Q Is there any way of looking at this form 9-B which is

11 the invoice form to determine who prepared it, which

12 person prepared it and who sent it? Is there any code or

13 anything on it?

14 A (Perusing.) No. There's coding but that's just for

15 the purpose of who actually put the credit card number

16 through th e terminal. That's the only coding that would

17 be on here.

18 Q So there's no way in looking at this invoice form to

19 determine who in the company actually prepared it and sent

20 it, correct?

21 A This form in particular?

22 Q Yes. That form in particular.

23 A Right, no.
24 Q Let's take a look at 9-A. That's a credit card
25 printout; am I correct?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2547
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1 A Right, umm-hmm.

2 THE COURT: Yes? Excuse me.

3 THE WITNESS: Yes, sorry.

4 BY MR. JENKS:

5 Q Is that a credit card printout of a customer's credit

6 card?

7 A Yes, it is.

8 Q And there's an authorization number on that credit

9 card, correct?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And did you actually run the customer's credit card

12 and obtain the authorizations, or did someone els e do

13 that?

14 A This one in particular?

15 Q First, 9-A.

16 A Yes. I put it through.

17 Q And how do you know you put it through?

18 A This is my handwriting (indicating) right here.

19 Q Right?

20 MR. SCHOER: What exhibit is she talking about?

21 THE COURT: Did somebody say something?

22 MR. SCHOER: I apologize.

23 What exhibit is she referring to when she says
24 "this is my handwriting"?
25 THE WITNESS: This is the invoice.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2548
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1 MR. SCHOER: What exhibit is it?

2 THE WITNESS: 9-B.

3 MR. SCHOER: And when you say "this is my

4 handwriting," what are you pointing to?

5 THE WITNESS: The green, okay, this one. This

6 one is okay. 91-157.

7 BY MR. JENKS:

8 Q Would I be correct in saying that the only thing you

9 would write on one of these invoices would be an "okay"

10 with a docket number or a file number?

11 A There would be this and there would also be changes

12 to -- let's say the person who had entered this into the

13 computer had incorrectly spelled the name, I would make

14 the adjustment on there.

15 Q Okay. Take a look at the top.

16 When you say you would make the adjustment, would

17 you make it by hand or would you make it by computer

18 entry?

19 A I would make it by hand and I would distribute it to

20 the person who put the data incorrectly into the computer

21 system.

22 Q Whose initials are on 9-B at top, "CRH." Do you see

23 that?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Who is that?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 A This would have to be -- CRH? Oh, Rachel Hance.

2 Q And the "C" stands for?

3 A I don't know, but her name was Rachel Hance.

4 Q What is the significance of Rachel Hance's initials

5 appearing on this invoice? Why would her initials be

6 there?

7 A I wouldn't be able to tell you.

8 Oh, wait, actually -- hold on one second.

9 Oh, I know why. It's right here (indicating.)

10 Q Okay.

11 A What this is, her signature is, she was in charge of

12 entering what we called the cash receipts. So once this

13 credit card was processed in the terminal, it had to be

14 marked "paid" and the credit card number was automatically

15 put in there by the person who was entering the order, in

16 this particular case, a Lenny Campbell, C-A-M-P-B-E-L-L,

17 was the individual who was the data entry person.

18 Q I'm not asking you 9-C, I'm asking you 9-B.

19 A Okay.

20 Q You know, you are saying your writing is on there,

2 1 but someone else's is too?

22 A She was the one who entered the cash receipt. She

23 was the one who marked it paid in the computer.
24 Q So she actually did then the credit card
25 authorization?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 A No, this is my handwriting. This is my check, my

2 check mark.

3 Q Let's take a look at Government's Exhibit 5-B.

4 All of the B's that we have here in this book.

5 These are the invoices; am I right?

6 A Umm-hmm. Yes.

7 Q The pink ones?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Pink means invoice?

10 A Yes.

11 Q So when they think of pink, we think of the Who's Who

12 invoice?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Whose initials are these here on the top?

15 A Jennifer, I don't remember her name.

16 Q Is this your handwriting on 5-B?

17 A Yes.

18 Q So you r handwriting just says "okay" with some kind

19 of a docket number on them?

20 A That's the trend.

21 Q Most of them, correct?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Up on the top on each one of these there is someone
24 else's initials; am I right?
25 A Yes, that's correct.

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1 Q And the significance of all of these other peoples'

2 initials up on the top of these invoices is what again?

3 A Entering of the cash receipts.

4 Q So they actually entered it into the computer?

5 A They'll enter in that this is paid by credit card,

6 yes.

7 Q Let's look at the last exhibit there in that

8 collection which is 9-A.

9 That's the credit card receipt of the customer,

10 correct?

11 A Yep. Yes, it is.

12 Q None of those credit card receipts in those books are

13 actually signed by the customer; am I correct?

14 A Yes, they are not signed by the customer.

15 Q None of them are, right?

16 A None.

17 Q And there's no individuals' handwriting from Who's

18 Who Worldwide on any of those credit card receipts, is

19 there?

20 A No, there's not.

21 Q Your handwriting doesn't appear on any of those

22 credit card receipts, correct?

23 A Not on the receipt, no.
24 Q Those credit card receipts are not records which were
25 generated by Who's Who Worldwide, would that be correct?

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1 A They are generated through the Banco terminal that

2 was in Who's Who Worldwide.

3 Q But they are not Who's Who Worldwide documents; is

4 that correct?

5 In other words, they are not documents that were

6 produced by Who's Who Worldwide, is that so?

7 A They were produced by NABANCO. This is a receipt.

8 Q By a machine?

9 A By a machine located in Who's Who.

10 Q When you say NABANCO, I don't understand?

11 A N-A-B-A-N-C-O. When you go in and make a purchase

12 with the credit card, the credit card would be swiped

13 through it, we would punch in the credit card number,

14 expiration date and press the enter and in return it would

15 give us either a decline, invalid number or an

16 authorization. And the authorization which is over here

17 would then be put on the order form with the "okay." Now,

18 if it was not okayed, if it was declined, it would have

19 "declined" on it or it would have "invalid credit card

20 number."

21 Q But those documents, the A documents in that series

22 that Ms. Scott had shown you --

23 A Umm-hmm.
24 Q -- Are all of these credit card rece ipts, right?
25 A Yes.

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1 Q And those are not Who's Who Worldwide documents.

2 They come out of this that NABANCO machine; am I right?

3 A Which is -- right --

4 Q Which was at Who's Who Worldwide, you said that?

5 A Right.

6 Q Right?

7 A Umm-hmm.

8 Q But they are not Who's Who Worldwide documents that

9 Who's Who Worldwide had generated; is that right?

10 A They were not generated by World Wide Who's Who but

11 by the employees of Who's Who, whoever was up there

12 processing the orders.

13 Q Did you ever work at Sterling Who's Who?

14 A No, I did not.

15 Q So you don't know anything about the operation of

16 Sterling Who's Who, do you?

17 A I saw the orders forms that came over. I knew some

18 of the people that worked there, but I never went there.

19 Q So you had nothing to do with any of the documents

20 concerning Sterling Who's Who to customers; am I right?

21 A Yes, I did.

22 Q You did?

23 A Yes, I did.
24 Q And how was it that you had something to do with
25 those documents?

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1 A I did the same process as I did with the 1983 Marcus

2 Avenue. I did the same -- the process we did with the

3 orders, editing them, putting them through the terminal,

4 cash receipts, this was all done at 1983 Marcus Avenue and

5 I was in charge of counting the orders, making sure that

6 they matched up to the sales forms, making sure that the

7 information matched.

8 Q Did you ever work at Sterling Who's Who?

9 A No, I did not.

10 Q All right.

11 MR. JENKS: Your Honor, I have no f urther voir

12 dire of these documents.

13 MR. LEE: I have a couple questions.

14 THE COURT: Go ahead.

15 MR. LEE: Thank you, Judge.

16 (Continued.)

17

18

19

20

21

22

23
24
25

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1 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. LEE:

3 Q Ms. Springer.

4 A Yes.

5 Q I would like you to look at Government's Exhibit 9-C

6 for Identification, please.

7 A Okay.

8 Q And that is something that you identify by calling it

9 an order form, correct?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And that document contains information that a

12 salesperson, as far as you can tell, wrote down in that

13 document, correct?

14 A Yes.

15 Q However, am I correct that you stated that the

16 salesperson wo uld not necessarily make out this document

17 at or near the time of this interview?

18 A There was times, yes, correct.

19 Q And there is no way that you can tell by looking at

20 any particular document that it was made anywhere near the

21 time of the interview by the salesperson, correct, you

22 can't tell?

23 A Unless --
24 Q Is that true, yes or no?
25 In other words, you look at this document --

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1 well, let me back up a second.

2 Am I correct that a salesperson doesn't

3 necessarily make notations in this document at or near the

4 time that this interview was occurring?

5 A They do take notes. They did take notes.

6 Q But I'm talking about document 9-C in front of you.

7 A I'm not sure. Let me say I'm not sure --

8 Q I just want you to answer the question. If you don't

9 understand, let me know.

10 A I do understand.

11 Q Let me ask it again, ma'am.

12 A Okay.

13 Q Just listen.

14 A Umm-hmm.

15 Q Look at document 9-C.

16 A Okay.

17 Q That's, as far as you can tell, contains notations

18 made by a salesperson about this qualifying interview they

19 do over the phone. Yes or no?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Is that true?

22 A Yes.

23 Q But you also state based on your experience sometimes
24 the entries made by the salesperson, they don't do it
25 right at the time that they are doing the interview or

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1 right afterwards; is that correct?

2 Just yes or no?

3 A That is true.

4 Q And looking at any particular document, just looking

5 at 9-C for example -- I'll ba ck up.

6 That's true of all these order forms. There are

7 times that a salesperson may make it right or at the time

8 they do the interview but there are times they do it

9 afterwards and we don't know how long afterwards; is that

10 true?

11 A Yes.

12 MR. LEE: I have no further questions.

13 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, would it be possible

14 to take a brief break now?

15 THE COURT: Yes. Well, I was going to do that

16 anyway.

17 Members of the jury, we'll take a ten-minute

18 recess because I have to discuss some questions of law

19 with counsel.

20 Please don't discuss the case. Keep an open

21 mind. Please recess yourselves. It may be longer than

22 ten minutes.

23 (Jury exits.)
24 THE WITNESS: Am I permitted to leave?
25 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, do you want the witness

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1 to leave yet?

2 THE COURT: All right. You may step out of the

3 courtroom.

4 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

5 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, Mr. Gordon has to go

6 to the wash room very badly. Could we do that right now?

7 THE COURT: All right. We'll have to take a

8 five-minute recess.

9 MR. TRABULUS: It will just be a moment.

10 (Recess taken.)

11 THE COURT: Is everybody in now? Is anybody

12 missing?

13 MR. NELSON: Mr. Dunn is not here, Your Honor.

14 He's coming in.

15 THE COURT: All right.

16 Are there any objections to the introduction of

17 these records?

18 Have a seat, please.

19 MR. JENKS: Your Honor, I would object to the

20 introduction of the lead cards and the computer-generated

21 credit card invoices. I have no objection to the order

22 forms or to the invoices through this particular witness.

23 With respect to the lead cards themselves, the
24 testimony was that the lead cards were prepared by a
25 third-party, an outside publishing company. They were

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1 mailed to the customers, and the customer in fact filled

2 out the information that is contained on the lead card.

3 So what is contained on the lead card is in fact hearsay.

4 I would submit that it is a business record which

5 incorporates a statement by a person who is not part of

6 the regular organized activity and has no business duty to

7 make that report.

8 If the record is offered to prove the truth of

9 what is in that lead card, such as "I'm a pharmacist, I'm

10 a doctor or I'm a lawyer" or what have you, it should be

11 treated as hearsay. I would respectfully submit to you

12 that the appropriate person to introduce a lead card

13 through that lead card that is in every packet there is

14 the actual individual who filled out the information

15 contained on the lead card. I don't think you can offer

16 the contents of the document, whether it be a business

17 record or not, to prove the truth of what is contained in

18 the document. I mean, there are two separate ways. You

19 get the document in as a business record but in order to

20 prove the truth of the contents of the document that has

21 to be proved independently otherwise it is hearsay. You

22 can't circumvent the hearsay rule by a business record

23 exception allowing the document in. I would object to the
24 introduction of the lead card.
25 I would object to all of the lead cards that

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1 Ms. Scott had marked for Identification and had shown to

2 the witness.

3 I would also object to the introduction of -- I

4 think she said that NABANCO, NABANCO credit card receipts

5 that were generated from the terminal in Who's Who

6 Worldwide since they were not regularly kept business

7 records of the corporation. And I would make those two

8 objections.

9 With respect to the order form and the invoice, I

10 have no objection.

11 MR. SCHOER: Judge, with respect to, I hate to do

12 this, but with respect to some of these documents, there

13 are handwritten notes. For example, Exhibit 3-E -- I'm

14 sorry, Judge.

15 THE COURT: No, you go ahead.

16 MR. SCHOER: Exhibit 3-E has a note written

17 apparently by the customer on top of an invoice. I would

18 object to the introduction of those kinds of notes at this

19 point.

20 I n addition, I know Ms. Scott went very quickly,

21 but it seems to me that -- I know she went very quickly

22 but it seems to me some of the things she offered in

23 evidence were more than the order form, the lead card and
24 the invoice and that slip. Some of the letters --
25 THE COURT: What is the slip?

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1 MR. SCHOER: The credit card slip. Some of the

2 letters, I believe, were solicitation letters. Some

3 apparently -- I believe some were solicitation letters.

4 THE COURT: Are you objecting to solicitation

5 letters?

6 MR. SCHOER: At this point, yes.

7 MR. WHITE: Which exhibit is the solicitation

8 letter?

9 MR. SCHOER: I'm saying, she went fast. 19-E.

10 MR. WHITE: That was the solicitation letter.

11 MR. SCHOER: And 44-F.

12 THE COURT: Why is t he solicitation letter not a

13 business record, Mr. Schoer?

14 MR. SCHOER: Your Honor, there has been no

15 testimony about solicitation letters by this witness.

16 THE COURT: Assuming it was made in the regular

17 course of business.

18 MR. SCHOER: She didn't say that.

19 THE COURT: Assuming it is, assuming that she

20 says this. I will not go through this four times. I

21 don't know that she didn't say it, but assuming you are

22 right, assuming that this is the solicitation letter and I

23 have every reason she will say that, don't you,
24 Mr. Jenks?
25 MR. JENKS: I don't know. She said she would

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1 introduce the solicitation letter through a different

2 custodian, so I don't know.

3 THE COURT: So you are not offering this

4 solicitation letter, M s. Scott?

5 MS. SCOTT: That's correct, Your Honor.

6 THE COURT: I thought she was.

7 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, we intend to offer it

8 later in the case, just to clarify.

9 THE COURT: I understand.

10 What is objected to, as I understand it, is the

11 lead card because there are comments made by the

12 customers. Two, the credit card slips or receipts, and

13 three, handwritten notes on some of the documents. Is

14 that what is objected to?

15 MR. SCHOER: I think there are other documents.

16 Again, my note-keeping -- did you offer 54-I?

17 MR. TRABULUS: She offered that and also 54-E

18 which is a letter apparently from a customer.

19 MR. WHITE: 54-E is not offered.

20 MR. TRABULUS: Oh, it isn't.

21 MR. SCHOER: 54-I, I believe it was, and that is

22 a letter from Bank America.

23 THE COURT: What I suggest we do, I'll make
24 rulings i n a generalized fashion and you can specifically
25 go through any of the items that you say are handwritten

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1 notes or something. It will be a long process. I don't

2 want to keep the jury waiting forever. So let's talk

3 about generically the law on these things. What is the

4 law on the admissibility of a lead card?

5 You are getting up. You are poised to say

6 something. Who will handle this, you or Ms. Scott, not

7 both?

8 MR. WHITE: I will handle the argument.

9 THE COURT: Why is it admissible the lead card

10 that is made up by the customer?

11 MR. WHITE: Because the Second Circuit law is

12 crystal clear that a document that is not produced by the

13 business but is incorporated into that business' records

14 and relied upon is therefore a business record of t he

15 corporation.

16 THE COURT: Are you talking about the Jacobetz

17 case?

18 MR. WHITE: Yes, Your Honor, among others.

19 THE COURT: That was an opinion written by that

20 distinguished jurist whose portrait is on the wall here.

21 Did you know that, Mr. White?

22 MR. WHITE: In fact, I do, Your Honor, and as you

23 know that case involved a corporate custodian who
24 testified as part of a reimbursement voucher that was
25 submitted to his corporation by an executive, that

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1 executive included a receipt from the Triboro Bridge and

2 Tunnel Authority which was introduced as a business record

3 of that corporation.

4 THE COURT: You have to slow down, Mr. White.

5 You are going so fast that you are almost reaching

6 Ms. Scott's speed and she is strat osphere. She has gone

7 beyond speed records. I can't keep up with it. I know

8 that my colleagues here, the defense lawyers are all right

9 with it, but I can't. I mean, I'm sure the jurors are

10 with you all the way.

11 MR. WHITE: I'll slow down. In the Jacobetz case

12 it was admitted as a business record even though the

13 receipt had been prepared by the Triboro Bridge and Tunnel

14 Authority and submitted by an executive and submitted as

15 his reimbursement voucher to the corporation because the

16 company incorporated into its records and relied upon it,

17 in fact, they paid out money to the executives based upon

18 the genuineness of that document.

19 THE COURT: Mr. White, are you equating Triboro

20 Bridge toll receipts with lead cards made by customers?

21 MR. WHITE: I am, because this is a business

22 record that is relied upon by Who's Who. They sent ou t

23 the card to a customer, the customer returns it to them
24 with their return address on it.
25 THE COURT: No, you missed my point. We're

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1 talking about reliability, authenticity, trustworthiness,

2 that's what we are talking about, correct?

3 MR. WHITE: Correct.

4 THE COURT: The rule is the business rule record

5 should be admitted if it is trustworthy and it follows the

6 rule --

7 MR. WHITE: That's correct.

8 THE COURT: That's the basic foundation for this

9 rule, that something is done on a regular basis by a

10 company is authentic, is trustworthy. But you are not

11 equating a Triboro Bridge automated toll receipt which is

12 very instrumental in that case because it had the time

13 that this person went to the tolls. You are not equating

14 that document with something written out by a customer in

15 Sioux City, Iowa.

16 MR. WHITE: Actually I am. Let me explain why.

17 The Second Circuit case law isn't limited just to the

18 situation of Jacobetz of an automated toll receipt.

19 THE COURT: Show me.

20 MR. WHITE: There's the Saks case, 817 F.2d 1011.

21 THE COURT: I just got Saks.

22 MR. WHITE: Saks.

23 THE COURT: What is the citation which you went
24 through like lightening.
25 MR. WHITE: 817 F.2d 1011.

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1 THE COURT: What does that say?

2 MR. WHITE: The relevance of that, it's a civil

3 case, it's a dispute over some shipping and cargo. A ship

4 loads up cargo in Africa, I believe, sales to the United

5 States. At a subsequent trial the chief.

6 Chief mate of the ship identifies as b usiness

7 records the handwritten tallies made by the African dock

8 workers of what cargo they loaded onto a ship. And he

9 testified that his business, that was the custom and

10 practice in that industry to rely upon the dock workers

11 who were loading the cargo onto the dock even though they

12 didn't work for him, but he relied upon it in his

13 business. So, yeah, I'm equating the lead cards with

14 that.

15 THE COURT: Good case for you, Mr. White. I

16 didn't know that case.

17 MR. WHITE: I was up late finding it.

18 THE COURT: That's a very good case. What else

19 do you have? You must have stayed up very late to find

20 that one.

21 MR. WHITE: There is another case that follows

22 the same principle. I can't off the top of my head tell

23 you what the precise record involved was.
24 THE COURT: How about cases that were decided
25 a fter Jacobetz?

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1 MR. WHITE: I don't remember off the top of my

2 head what year that was decided.

3 THE COURT: 1992.

4 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, the ones I have --

5 THE COURT: That is the key case, there's no

6 question about it.

7 MR. WHITE: Right. There is an additional one as

8 I said, Your Honor, and I'm not sure, I would have to

9 review it again to figure out precisely what it is.

10 THE COURT: Do you have a copy of Saks?

11 MR. WHITE: Yes.

12 THE COURT: May I see it?

13 MR. WHITE: (Handing.)

14 THE COURT: Looks good.

15 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, may I make one other

16 point?

17 THE COURT: I mean, for you.

18 MR. WHITE: I know. It does look good.

19 THE COURT: It doesn't look good for Mr. Jenks at

20 all.

21 MR. WHITE: You asked me if I was equating the

22 toll receipt with the lead card. I am in this case. Just

23 as the toll receipt was entered for the time that that
24 person crossed the bridge, the primary reason the
25 government is offering the lead card, is the mailing, the

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1 time stamp, the date postal mark on each of those cards,

2 and I think it is certainly clear from all we know of the

3 mailing process that that's just as reliable as a time

4 stamp from a toll receipt from the Triboro Bridge.

5 THE COURT: I agree. So you don't want the

6 written part to go in?

7 MR. WHITE: I want the whole thing to go in.

8 THE COURT: I thought you said it is so

9 reliable. The written part isn't as reliable, right?

10 MR. WHITE: I agree, but I don't think it is any

11 less relia ble than the African dock workers cargo tally.

12 THE COURT: Well, we'll have to go through all of

13 these records. How do you propose that?

14 Well, first of all, the objection is to the lead

15 card, the credit card slips. What about these credit card

16 slips?

17 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, I think the credit card

18 slips fall into the same category. If I understood

19 Ms. Springer's testimony, the Who's Who Worldwide, the

20 credit card merchant runs the card through the credit card

21 machine, it gives them the authorization and this is the

22 receipt that is provided to the merchant, that they keep

23 for their records. Again, it is something that the
24 business incorporates into its records and relies upon.
25 THE COURT: Okay. This is the ruling of the

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1 court on this interesting evidentiary issue and I'm not

2 going through the various handwritten notes. We'll deal

3 with that or you'll have to deal with that on an

4 individual basis, but generally speaking with regard to

5 the lead cards and the credit card receipts. There being

6 no objection to the order cards --

7 MR. LEE: Just -- I do have an objection. I

8 apologize, I didn't have the opportunity to stand up to

9 catch your attention.

10 THE COURT: You object to what?

11 MR. LEE: I do have an objection. Other counsel,

12 I think Mr. Jenks, specifically stated he did not object

13 to what is called by Ms. Springer, the order forms, but I

14 have a very specific objection to that and I would like to

15 be heard on that.

16 THE COURT: Go ahead.

17 MR. LEE: I refer Your Honor's attention to

18 further Exhibit 9-C which is what I specifically asked

19 Ms. Springer about. She identified that as an order

20 form. She testified both on direct and on cross that

21 these order forms are not necessarily created by the maker

22 at -- the salesperson at or near the time of what they

23 reflect which is this interview. She said she couldn't
24 tell how long afterwards they may have prepared it. I
25 think that's a fatal depiction that doesn't allow it to

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1 come in.

2 THE COURT: No, it's not because you didn't ask

3 her how long afterwards is the outside time they would

4 prepare it. I know you carefully avoided that which is

5 nice but I will get to that when she comes back.

6 MR. LEE: Well, Judge, okay. At that point I

7 thought at least it was comfortable that it could call for

8 conjecture and guesswork but it is also trustworthiness .

9 And Mr. White finally was pushed, he tried to offer to the

10 Court the reason for his offering the lead card. I think

11 it need be asked or should be asked what he's offering

12 that order form for. Because if you look at it

13 specifically, Your Honor, I don't know what they are

14 offering it to prove but it has names of people,

15 salespeople on the upper right-hand corner. I don't know

16 what he's offering it for but it should be asked by the

17 Court, it should be his burden what he's offering it for

18 because it may compel Your Honor to give a limiting

19 instruction to the jury for what purpose it is being

20 offered for because it may contain something in there that

21 is inadmissible or at least prejudicial and may require

22 Your Honor either to redact it or to give a limiting

23 instruction as to what it is being offered for because it
24 can be off ered for many reasons and he's not being
25 specific.

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1 He just wants Your Honor to let it fly in, the

2 complete document. And on these order forms, Your Honor,

3 there is another element about it that I think undercuts

4 his trustworthiness.

5 Ms. Springer is testifying that notations are

6 made on these very documents subsequent to notations made

7 by the maker, the salesperson and there are changes, there

8 is editing occurring. We don't know the motivation for

9 the editing, it goes to the trustworthiness it has and it

10 is all coming in with handwritten changes. We don't know

11 exactly who is making it, when they are making it and why

12 they are making it.

13 I submit this document is unreliable and we need

14 at least some specific offer of proof from Mr. Wh ite what

15 he thinks this proves.

16 THE COURT: Mr. Lee, I don't know how to answer

17 each one of your contentions because you've made a number

18 of them. I assume a document offered as an exception to

19 the hearsay rule is offered for the truth. That's what it

20 is offered for. And let's not dodge it. It is offered

21 for the truth. That's what it means. It's an exception

22 to the hearsay rule and as far as changes or notations or

23 alterations, that will have to be handled on a
24 document-by-document basis. If the changes and notations
25 are made in the regular course of business, they are going

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1 to go in evidence for the truth.

2 That's what they are offered for; is that

3 correct, Mr. White?

4 MR. WHITE: Yes, Your Honor. And if Mr. Lee

5 wants f urther detail, he can cross-examine the witness

6 about certain events.

7 THE COURT: Well, before the documents go in, if

8 there are alterations and handwritten statements on them,

9 I will go over them if they can't be any agreement on a

10 document-by-document basis. I'm going over generically

11 the law with regard to the admissibility of these types of

12 documents. Now, each one may have problems that I'll have

13 to address but as far as whether it is at or about the

14 time of the transaction, Mr. Lee, I don't know because you

15 didn't question the witness sufficiently, or for your

16 purposes it was sufficient, but not for mine. We'll get

17 to that in due course lease.

18 MR. LEE: Just one further thing briefly.

19 Perhaps I used the wrong word or I should have

20 made it more clear. When I speak about what specific

21 purpose he's offering it for, I'm spea king to relevance.

22 I'm not speaking to that it survives as far as the hearsay

23 rule is concerned. There has to be an offer of proof as
24 to its relevance.
25 THE COURT: Relevance of these cards?

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1 MR. LEE: No, specifically of this order form I'm

2 talking about. He has to make an offer of proof of

3 relevance, he can't say it is a business record and it

4 comes in. The Court has to inquire what he's offering it

5 to prove, what its relevance is and that may give rise to

6 other evidentiary objections.

7 If he's offering it specifically, for example,

8 for an admission or deletion as a salesperson, there may

9 be a problem with that and that may require some sort of

10 limiting instruction from Your Honor. My point is

11 relevance has to be stated to Your Honor a bout what these

12 documents are offered to prove.

13 THE COURT: Reading the indictment I think it

14 would be relevant, but when you say it may be an

15 admission, I didn't even get into that yet.

16 There's another, as you say, there's another very

17 important reason why some of this will go in and they are

18 admissions by the defendants. However, I'm going to do it

19 one step at a time.

20 At this point we have an objection to the

21 business record rule because the lead cards and the credit

22 card receipts are hearsay, according to Mr. Jenks,

23 Mr. Schoer and I guess all the rest of the defendants'
24 lawyers.
25 MR. NELSON: Your Honor, if I might be heard for

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1 a moment. I have a specific objection on a generic basis

2 to the order forms, to a speci fic portion of the order

3 forms. It relates to the portion of the order forms which

4 flow from ship to, which in the middle of the document

5 until the portion which is, which starts with lifetime

6 membership and lists what the actual amount and cost is.

7 It appears, Your Honor, that the information

8 contained here on the testimony of Ms. Springer is

9 information which is acquired from the applicant during

10 the course of an interview. This is hearsay. This is

11 specific intimation that is being imparted to the person

12 preparing the document by a third-party.

13 I would submit, Your Honor, it is analogous, for

14 example, in a robbery case where there is a complaint that

15 is prepared by the police department, the narrative

16 portion of that is hearsay and not admissible, while the

17 document itself is prepared in the recourse of business.

18 The portions that are provided by the victim of the

19 offense itself are hearsay on top of hearsay and there

20 would have to be a separate exception to the hearsay rule

21 to allow that portion of document to be admitted.

22 So my objection specifically is to that

23 biographical portion of the generic document itself, that
24 that portion should not be admissible. It doesn't pass
25 the reliable prong of the business record exception

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1 because it is provided by an outside person to the maker

2 of the document.

3 MR. JENKS: Your Honor, that's the same objection

4 I made to the content of what is contained in the lead

5 card and why if they are offering the lead card for the

6 truth, why I would object. That's basically the same

7 identical reason.

8 THE COURT: It's good you rei nforced it. I

9 thought that was so, Mr. Jenks. Thanks for corroborating

10 that. It is the same objection and it was met by

11 Mr. White with the Saks case, 817 F.2d 1011. It was met

12 with --

13 MR. NELSON: That would be Jacobetz, Your Honor,

14 I believe.

15 THE COURT: I'm trying to see what I did with it,

16 which is interesting.

17 MR. NELSON: Your Honor, while I have the Court's

18 attention --

19 THE COURT: Well, you didn't let me finish the

20 Jakobetz case, 955 F.2d, 786 (2d Cir. 1992.)

21 Yes.

22 MR. NELSON: Thank you, Your Honor. While I've

23 not had the opportunity to read Saks and I've read
24 Jakobetz in the past, I would submit to the Court both of
25 those cases are clearly distinguishable and they are

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1 clearly distinguish able because the Court of Appeals in

2 both of those cases looked to the independent reliability

3 of the information that was being relied upon by the

4 person who was the maker of the document or who was

5 utilizing the document.

6 While I've only heard the factual recitation

7 provided by the government with respect to Saks, in

8 essence what the government is saying is that they were

9 relying upon a business record prepared by dock workers in

10 Africa at that time which would have some independent

11 reliability in and of itself. This is a form being

12 prepared by people who are in essence preparing packing

13 slips that are being loaded onto a ship. Those documents

14 have independent reliability. There's a reason why the

15 person who is the porter or the dock worker or his foreman

16 is supervising what is taking place and there is an

17 independent basis fo r reliability for the preparation of

18 the document upon which it is later relied upon by third

19 parties.

20 I would submit to the Court that is the

21 distinguishing feature in each of these cases, that there

22 is some form of independent reliability that the Court of

23 Appeals looked to in the document that was relied upon. I
24 would submit here as it relates to the lead card there is
25 no independent reliability other than the fact that some

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1 individual sent a lead card in. We don't know who the

2 person is, what the person is, what the person had to send

3 in, what basis the person had to send it in.

4 Thank you, Your Honor.

5 THE COURT: It's an interesting question and it

6 is not open and should I dare say and it would be very

7 interesting to see how it comes out. I like these

8 evidentiary problems. I'll make a ruling but first I want

9 to go into the jury and apologize to them for keeping them

10 waiting, tell them there will be another 15 or 20

11 minutes.

12 Any objection?

13 MR. WHITE: No, Your Honor.

14 (Recess taken.)

15 (In the jury room.)

16 THE COURT: I want to apologize to all of you for

17 keeping you waiting, especially since you got here three

18 minutes before 9:30 in the morning, but I have to go over

19 some issues of law and it will be another 15 or 20

20 minutes. So I'm sorry. I know you are in close quarters

21 here and it could be a larger room and you are very

22 patient or impatient, I don't know what to say, but I'm

23 sorry about that.
24 We'll get to you as soon as we can.
25 (In open court.)

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1 THE COURT: All right. Let's take a look at the

2 first evidentiary rule, 803(6), which says the following

3 are not excluded by the hearsay rule even though the

4 declarant is available as a witness. Subdivision (6),

5 records of regularly conducted activity. A memorandum,

6 report, record or data compilation, in any form of acts,

7 events, conditions, opinions or diagnoses, made at or near

8 the time by or from information transmitted by a person

9 with knowledge, if kept in the course of a regularly

10 conducted business activity and if it was the regular

11 practice of that business activity to make the memorandum,

12 report, record, etcetera, all as shown by the testimony of

13 the custodian or other qualified witness, unless the

14 source of information or the method or circumstances of

15 preparation indicate lack of trustworthiness."

16 In United States v. Strother, which I have the

17 slip opinion, I don't have the citation, but under your

18 modern method you can get that in about eight seconds, I

19 suppose, it was decided by the Second Circuit on March 1,

20 1995 and it says this. Talking about the business record

21 rule.

22 "This Court has adopted a generous view of the

23 business records exception construing it to favor the
24 admission of evidence if it has any probative value at
25 all."

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1 United States v. Froiden, 849 F.2d, 716 at 722,

2 (2d Cir. 1988), citations omitted.

3 Although the principle precondition to

4 admissibility is the sufficient trustworthiness of the

5 record -- and here they give your case, Saks v. MV Export

6 Champion 817 F.2d 1011, (2d Cir. 1987). The proffered

7 record must meet all the requirements of the exception.

8 The determination of whether a record is

9 sufficiently reliable to warrant its admission is within

10 the sound discretion of the district court, citations

11 omitted.

12 In a New York case which is not really binding

13 but is interesting, People v. Guidice, 83 N.Y.2d 630, a

14 line sheet, a record made by a person monitoring an

15 electronic transmission, in this case a telephone

16 conversation, it includes an identification of the tape on

17 which the recording is made, the date of each call,

18 etcetera.

19 The Court of Appeals holds, this is New York

20 Court of Appeals, holds that such line sheets maintained

21 in this instance may be admitted in evidence as business

22 records. Interesting.

23 We know also that invoices received and held by
24 one company and prepared and sent by a nother company are
25 admissible as business records.

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1 United States v. Ullrich, 580 F.2d 765, (5th Cir.

2 1978), where a car dealer made a manufacturer's statement

3 part of the dealer's records. So in this case the fact

4 that someone else sent out some material would not prevent

5 it from being a business record of Who's Who Worldwide.

6 Also, it has been held that invoices that a

7 construction company received from businesses that

8 supplied materials and services for work performed are

9 admissible as business records of the company that

10 received the invoices. United States v. Fleniod, 780 F.2d

11 867, (8th Cir. 1983). And of course a custodian or

12 qualified witness to identify the records need not be the

13 person who made the records, need not be the person

14 whoever saw the records, need not be the person in the

15 same company as made the records, as long as that person

16 says "I recognize that these are records made in the

17 regular course of business," that's sufficient.

18 In addition, I don't know -- are these records --

19 where did you get these records from, Mr. White?

20 MR. WHITE: These were records that were turned

21 over to the U.S. Attorney's Office by the trustee, the

22 bankruptcy trustee that was appointed to run or to

23 liquidate Who's Who Worldwide.
24 THE COURT: An interesting evidentiary point
25 because one who produces voluntarily documents and

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1 implicitly represents them to be business records cannot

2 be heard to contend that they are not business records.

3 That I don't think is very determinat ive in this

4 case but that is another interesting rule of law which is

5 set forth in United States v. Lawrence, 934 F.2d 868, (7th

6 Cir. 1991). And as I stated before the custodian or the

7 other qualified witness who testifies about the business

8 record need not personally participate in the creation or

9 maintenance of the document nor even know who recorded the

10 information. That's United States v. Muhammad, 928 F.2d

11 1461, (7th Cir. 1951).

12 Again, the Second Circuit on July 12, 1995, and I

13 haven't got the citation, in the case of Phoenix

14 Associates v. Stone said, Rule 803(6) favors the admission

15 of evidence rather than its exclusion if it has any

16 probative value at all, and the principle precondition to

17 admissibility is that the record has sufficient indicia of

18 trustworthiness to be considered reliable. And this

19 indicia of reliabilit y or trustworthiness is done when

20 there is repeated events, repeated regular, similar,

21 daily, weekly, monthly events rather than unusual or

22 isolated events which would take away from the

23 reliability. "We further reject --" this is from the same
24 case, Phoenix Associates, "we further reject Stone's
25 argument that -- let's use the name, Ambrosini's failure

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1 to identify the specific employee responsible for filling

2 out the record proved fatal to its foundation." They

3 reject that. The custodian need not have personal

4 knowledge of the actual creation of the document, nor is

5 there any requirement under Rule 803(6) that the records

6 be prepared by the party who has custody of the documents

7 and seeks to introduce them into evidence, rather all that

8 is req uired is proof that it was the business entities

9 regular practice to get information from the person who

10 created the document, citing Saks again, Mr. White. How

11 did I miss that case?

12 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, I have the cite for

13 Phoenix Associates, if you want it.

14 THE COURT: And in Raphaely International v.

15 Waterman Steamship Corp., decided by the Second Circuit

16 August 14, 1992. They say likewise it is irrelevant that

17 the foundation for this evidence was laid by an employee

18 of SGS rather than an employee of Gezira.

19 In an excellent article on evidence by a

20 distinguished professor, Michael Martin, who I think is at

21 Fordham Law School, I'm not sure, he commented on this

22 practice of allowing into evidence business records, parts

23 of which were supplied by other entities and other persons
24 which we have here.
25 "Although each of the foundation requirements in

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1 the Federal Rules provides circumstantial assurances of

2 reliability, the courts have not always insisted that

3 every requirement be satisfied, rather if the records seem

4 to be trustworthy, it has sometimes been admitted even if

5 it was not made by the business whose record it was, or if

6 it was not kept by the business. And sometimes the Courts

7 focus on a record's apparent trustworthiness has lead to

8 sliding over double hearsay problems resulting from the

9 observer with personal knowledge, not being a regular

10 participant in the business-making and keeping of the

11 records. And they cited certain cases in which this was

12 done.

13 I don't believe in sliding over double hearsay,

14 however. I don't agree with that, but we come down to the

15 case that surprised me when it came down and that's the

16 seminal case of United States v. Jakobetz, 955 F.2d 786.

17 In Jakobetz, the district court allowed the

18 government to admit into evidence a toll receipt for the

19 Throgs Neck Bridge stamped June 14, 1989, 3:20 p.m., $10.

20 The receipt was part of a trip cost report that the

21 defendant submitted to his employer to obtain

22 reimbursement for his expenses. The government submitted

23 the toll receipt as part of the employer's business
24 records. However, the receipt was a record made by the
25 Throgs Neck Bridge system and not by the employer, a firm

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1 named Wildcat.

2 For some reason the government never put on the

3 stand anybody from the Triboro Bridge Authority, which I

4 imagine they could easily have done, however, it was not

5 done. And on appeal the defendant contended that this

6 toll receipt had to be authenticated by a person with

7 knowledge of the Throgs Neck Bridge records system.

8 He argued that since Wildcat, his employer,

9 simply had possession of but did not prepare the record.

10 Testimony by the custodian of Wildcat's records was

11 insufficient. Stated simply, Wildcat didn't make or

12 prepare the record. This argument was rejected by the

13 circuit court. Inside quote, 'we do not read into the

14 business record exception so narrowly --' withdrawn. "We

15 do not read the business record exception so narrowly.

16 Rule 803(6) allows business records to be admitted 'if

17 witnesses testify that the records are integrated into a

18 company's records and relied upon in its day-to-day

19 operations.'" Matter of Ollag, 665 F.2d 43, (2d Ci r.

20 1981). Even if the document is originally created by

21 another entity, in our case the customer, it's creator,

22 the customer, need not testify when the document has been

23 incorporated into the business records of the testifying
24 entity. See United States v. Carranco, 551 F.2d 1197,
25 (10th Cir. 1997).

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1 In this case Wildcat incorporated the toll

2 receipts into its business records to a sufficient degree

3 to permit an inference as to the receipt's authenticity.

4 The Wildcat witness testified that toll receipts were

5 regularly submitted by drivers as part of their trip

6 reports and regularly incorporated into the business

7 records for general accounting purposes.

8 Here's where the government's real problem comes

9 into the case and the Court, Judge Pratt (indicating)

10 continued by saying "in addition, a toll receipt is not

11 the type of evidence that is so susceptible to fabrication

12 that authentication by a representative of the Throgs Neck

13 Bridge should be required. Jakobetz himself relied on its

14 authenticity when he submitted the receipt for

15 reimbursement of his expenses. He must have believed that

16 the date, time and amount stamped on the receipt fairly

17 represented a part of his trip for which he sought to be

18 reimbursed. Thus, the trial court did not abuse its

19 discretion by allowing the receipt into evidence."

20 I might say here while we don't have a toll

21 receipt which is much more authentic on its face than

22 these notes, we have a whole plan, system of operation.

23 As a result of these notes many things occurred. People
24 acted on these notes. They are not notes in an
25 iso lation. The notes triggered a whole process by which

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1 this customer became a member of the organization and

2 other reports followed, other records were sent. So there

3 is some authentication for the fact that this customer

4 wrote out what the customer wrote on the card.

5 Moreover, this case demonstrates the tendency to

6 favor admissibility in the federal court, if relevant and

7 probative and reliable.

8 Accordingly, it is the opinion of the Court that

9 the order card is admissible, and I'm not going into the

10 particular details of each card if there may be problems

11 with each particular exhibit, the invoices are admissible,

12 the lead cards are admissible, the credit card receipts

13 are admissible.

14 Now, we didn't get to the solicitation letters.

15 Th e only -- which was the one, Mr. Lee, that you said

16 wasn't done at the time?

17 MR. LEE: Well, I asked -- Exhibit 9-C.

18 THE COURT: What kind of records?

19 MR. LEE: What she called an order form.

20 THE COURT: Before we let those in, I want to

21 find out when they were made out. If they were made out

22 within a reasonable time that would be enough in my view,

23 Mr. Lee. They don't have to be made on the minute, but we
24 can find that out. So that's my ruling generically on
25 these exhibits.

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1 How you will work it out on an individual basis,

2 I think we'll have to do it after court or something.

3 You'll have to do it with the defendants' lawyers.

4 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, I'm sure we can work that

5 out. It sounds like Your Honor's ruling is resolving the

6 issue with respect to probably 90 percent of them.

7 Maybe we can do that at lunchtime.

8 THE COURT: Don't you people eat lunch at all?

9 MR. WHITE: Well, yes, but we'll try to do it.

10 THE COURT: You don't have to reveal it. That's

11 a confidential communication which you don't have to

12 reveal.

13 MR. WHITE: I just want to make sure this is how

14 I would propose to continue. We would continue with

15 Ms. Springer's direct testimony because she is testifying

16 about other matters in addition to this, to lay the

17 foundation for these bids records.

18 She will be here until lunchtime, until 12:30. A

19 member of her family, though, has had surgery this morning

20 and she needed this afternoon to go pick them up. So I

21 guess what we propose with the Court's permission if we

22 can excuse her again and we have other witnesses to put

23 on, she will be back this afternoon and insert her back
24 and continue with her testimony and hopefully in the
25 meantime we can resolve a few outstanding business records

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1 issues.

2 THE COURT: We have great flexibility in the

3 federal court. Did you know that? That's what they told

4 me when I got here, as opposed to the state court. I

5 really haven't seen much difference, but that's what they

6 told me.

7 MR. SCHOER: Judge, my question is, is Your

8 Honor's ruling that these documents are admissible based

9 -- are they admissible against all the defendants? Has

10 Your Honor made a determination that the government has

11 established a conspiracy and that these are -- these

12 documents are in furtherance of the conspiracy, or are you

13 admitting these documents as ad missions of certain

14 defendants or as admissions of the corporation, and are

15 you excluding the documents that weren't prepared by any

16 of the defendants?

17 THE COURT: Which question would you like me to

18 answer first?

19 MR. SCHOER: Maybe the first one.

20 THE COURT: I forget about the first two, maybe

21 the third.

22 MR. SCHOER: As to whether or not Your Honor has

23 found that Your Honor has established a conspiracy.
24 THE COURT: I haven't found that.
25 MR. SCHOER: So therefore --

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1 THE COURT: There's been no testimony that I

2 could find or make such a finding.

3 MR. SCHOER: And I agree with Your Honor. So

4 therefore these documents, particularly the order forms

5 I'm talking about now, are they being offered against all

6 o f the defendants or are they being offered only against

7 the defendants whose names appear on them?

8 THE COURT: At this point they will be offered

9 against the corporation and the defendant whose name is on

10 them. At this point that is. If you want me to explain

11 that to the jury, I will.

12 MR. SCHOER: May we confer about that, Judge?

13 THE COURT: Sure.

14 (Counsel confer.).

15 MR. NEVILLE: Your Honor --

16 THE COURT: Just one minute.

17 (Pause in proceedings.)

18 THE COURT: Yes, who wanted to the speak to me?

19 Mr. Neville?

20 MR. NEVILLE: Yes, Your Honor. May we continue

21 to voir dire this witness outside the presence of the jury

22 in terms of the reliability? We'd like to get into some

23 of the names and things.
24 THE COURT: Outside the presence of the jury?
25 MR. NEVILLE: Yes.

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1 THE COURT: Why outside the presence?

2 MR. NEVILLE: Because it could be potentially

3 prejudicial to my client, Scott Michaelson and other

4 people at trial if we were to go through some of the line

5 of questioning with the witness in the presence of the

6 jury. We're merely trying to establish or determine an

7 evidentiary question that the Court or the Judge will rule

8 on and then the jury can hear the testimony.

9 THE COURT: Are you putting in these documents

10 that Mr. Neville is talking about at this point? I don't

11 know what he's talking about.

12 MR. NEVILLE: The order form. The documents

13 we've been talking about all morning.

14 MR. WHITE: Yes, then we are putting them in.

15 MR. NEVILLE: For goodness sake.

16 THE COURT: You are making an objection to the

17 order form.

18 MR. NEVILLE: Not other than the objections

19 already made. Respectfully if we could question the

20 witness outside the presence of the jury in terms of these

21 evidentiary questions.

22 MR. GEDULDIG: One of your rulings, Judge,

23 pertains most specifically to salespeople. I think the
24 documents would be coming in against the corporations and
25 the individual defendants named on the forms or the

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1 package of paper.

2 On the order forms generally or very often appear

3 the names of a salesperson and I believe what the

4 government is going to argue and I believe what

5 Ms. Springer might say is that taking the name off that

6 order form is the way the company knew who made the sale

7 and gave credit for commissions for that person. So if

8 the document now i s coming in in part to attribute what

9 the government would characterize as a misrepresentation

10 in a sale to one of these defendants, what we're saying --

11 THE COURT: Sale to one of these defendants?

12 MR. GEDULDIG: I'm sorry, a sale by one of these

13 defendants, we really didn't have an opportunity to

14 question Ms. Springer regarding the names of the

15 salespeople that appears on these order forms. And I

16 think, I'm not trying to speak for Mr. Neville --

17 MR. NEVILLE: You are doing it much better than I

18 am.

19 MR. GEDULDIG: What he was alluding to,

20 Mr. Neville, Mr. Lee, myself and Mr. White, we're the

21 defendants, we represent the defendants whose names will

22 most likely appear on the order forms. I don't think it

23 will be an extensive continuing voir dire but we are
24 asking to ask Ms. Springer some questions regarding the
25 nam es of the salespeople that are here on the order form.

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1 MR. LEE: If I may add. In other words, there's

2 a name identifying the name of the maker on these order

3 forms. That may not necessarily be the name of the person

4 who made out the documents because we understand we have a

5 good-faith basis to believe different names were injected

6 in that identification spot for different reasons, so

7 therefore if we can question this witness and it reveals

8 to Your Honor that there's total unreliability as to that

9 notation, identifying the maker, then Your Honor may not

10 admit it at all because it is total unreliable. It may

11 not be the true maker, someone just injected that name in

12 and I think Ms. Springer should shed some light on that.

13 THE COURT: The only issue I'm raising is should

14 it be in the absence of the jury?

15 MR. NELSON: While my client is not named on any

16 of these documents, Your Honor, I believe the separate

17 issue which might well need to be resolved outside the

18 presence of the jury and is one which will come up during

19 the course of the testimony of the various customers from

20 which the government is trying to lay a foundation by

21 using the order form, is going to be an issue pursuant to

22 801(d)(2)(e) and that will be whether or not the

23 government has proven by a preponderance of the evidence,
24 one, the existence of a conspiracy, and two, more
25 significantly as it relates to these documents, whether

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1 the person against whom the document or statement that the

2 customer might make is introduced, was a mem ber of the

3 conspiracy at the time that that statement was made.

4 Pursuant to Bourgaily v. The United States and

5 pursuant to 801(d)(2)(e), the Court must make a

6 preliminary determination by a preponderance of the

7 evidence under Federal Rules of Evidence 104(a) to

8 determine one, whether or not a conspiracy existed, and,

9 two, whether or not the person against whom the statement

10 was made was a member of the conspiracy at the time.

11 I believe what the government is attempting to do

12 at this point without putting words in their mouth is to

13 utilize the order forms which identify the names of

14 individuals as a predicate for the purpose of when the

15 individual customer testifies to elicit the conversation

16 that took place between that customer and the salesperson

17 as was taking place yesterday when the objection was

18 raised at an appropriate po int in time by Mr. Lee. And

19 that would be the reason why the hearing would have to be

20 conducted outside the presence of the jury so the Court

21 can make that preliminary determination under 104.

22 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, at this point I thought

23 we decided we are not offering them as co-conspirator
24 statements. They are either corporate -- they are at a
25 minimum corporate admissions. I think Your Honor could

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1 admit them subject to connection as co-conspirator

2 statements, but at this point since there is another basis

3 there is no reason to do that.

4 MR. NELSON: Your Honor, if I might. It's not

5 the question of the admissibility of these documents, it's

6 the question of what will occur next when these various

7 witnesses testify or attempt to testify with re spect to

8 conversations between various defendants. And I believe

9 that it would be the appropriate time now since this is

10 the witness who the government is proffering as the

11 records custodian who has knowledge of the manner in which

12 the documents were prepared for the Court to be able to

13 make a factual determination as to whether or not the

14 individual named on the document was in fact the person

15 who participated in that conversation.

16 It goes to the question of reliability and I

17 believe co-counsel are going to question the witness

18 concerning her knowledge of procedures that were followed

19 concerning the preparation of this document and whose name

20 might be included on it.

21 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, if I could just address

22 this. What Mr. Nelson is talking about is the same issue

23 we addressed yesterday morning, namely after Ms. Spri nger
24 is finished and these documents are in, can we have a
25 customer come in and say, as Ms. Rieger started to

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1 yesterday "I don't know the name of the person I spoke to

2 but they called me up, identified themselves as from Who's

3 Who Worldwide, sold me a membership. I gave them my

4 credit card, I got a plaque in the name and I got an

5 invoice confirming the sale." I also researched that

6 overnight. That at a minimum is a corporate admission,

7 even if these documents were not put in by Ms. Springer.

8 The corporate employee doesn't have to be identified I

9 said at the bench.

10 I found another Second Circuit case directly on

11 point. An employee, a statement of an employee is

12 admitted even though they can't -- the plaintiff in the

13 case can't even i dentify who it is. It is Pappas v.

14 Middle Earth Condominium, 963 F.2d 534 (2d Cir. 1990).

15 Your Honor, it's a very simple case, it's a slip

16 and fall case. The plaintiff sues the Vermont condominium

17 where he's staying because he slipped on the ice. Someone

18 from his family or his party picks up the phone, calls the

19 number for the owner of the condominium and says there is

20 an icy sidewalk. Shortly therefore some guy completely

21 unidentified shows up with a shovel and a bucket of salt

22 and he makes damaging admissions against the condominium,

23 namely something to the effect of, yeah, we've had a
24 problem with the area icing up before, thus putting the
25 condominium on notice.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 The plaintiffs wanted to offer that and they

2 weren't permitted to, but th e Second Circuit said they

3 should and it says specifically that the manufacture, the

4 proponent of the corporate admission didn't have to

5 identify the employee by name. And it said that liberal

6 treatment should be accorded, offers of proof as corporate

7 admissions, and it specifically says that all the facts

8 and circumstances should be taken into account in

9 determining whether or not that is a corporate admission,

10 whether or not you could presume the agency relationship.

11 And just like that, after the call to the condominium

12 owner, a guy shows up with a bucket of salt and a shovel

13 to clear up the icy patch, it's the same thing here. That

14 Who's Who confirms the sale when each of these employees

15 -- I'm sorry, when each of these customers gives them

16 their credit card number they get a plaque in the mail and

17 get an invoice. If that salesperson -- I'm sorry, the

18 Who's Who employee was not authorized to do that

19 presumably, Who's Who wouldn't be sending the customer an

20 invoice confirming the sale.

21 MR. GEDULDIG: The one big difference there the

22 person who comes in with the bucket of sand and a shovel,

23 nothing happened with him, he wasn't charged with
24 anything, he's not a named defendant. We're the bucket of
25 sand and the shovel, we are named defendant. When we are

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 saying oh, yeah, this icy patch is being here a while.

2 They are charging us with being responsible for the

3 information. So the case he cites is different from the

4 situation that our defendants as salespeople face.

5 THE COURT: Well, this is all well and good. The

6 point I'm trying to make is why this has to be done. I'm

7 certainly going to allow a voir dire, all the voir dire

8 you want. The question is should it be done in the

9 absence of the jury or with the jury present, that's the

10 point.

11 MR. NEVILLE: I can address that, Your Honor, the

12 government is clearly, and if I were in Mr. White's shoes

13 I would do the same thing, he's clearly offering this

14 order form in our case. The first one that was being

15 shown to the witness happens to have Scott Michaelson's

16 name on it. Thus, my avid interest in this issue. The

17 government is clearly looking to admit this in evidence as

18 a business record and also attribute to Scott Michaelson

19 misrepresentations to Rita Rieger who will testify a

20 little bit later today.

21 I take Mr. Nelson's points well on the

22 conspiracy, but we also have substantive counts here on

23 the case. There is a substantive count as to Scott
24 Michaelson making misrepresentations, mail fraud, wire
25 fraud, and we have good faith belief that these order

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 forms at times were filled out by a person who did not

2 necessarily speak to the perspective customer. There were

3 quotas. Mr. Gordon was very exacting on his quotas. Come

4 the end of the week if you didn't have quotas you would

5 swap with people sometimes and the fact that Scott

6 Michaelson is on the top of this order form of Exhibit 9

7 or whatever, does not necessarily mean that Scott

8 Michaelson spoke to Rita Rieger that she spoke to somebody

9 named Michael. There is some similarity between

10 Michaelson and Michael. As far as I know there were three

11 first name Michaels working as salespeople at Who's Who.

12 So if it should turn out that Your Hon or does believe this

13 is unreliable to the point of attributing a criminal act

14 on Scott Michaelson based on the fact that his name is on

15 the top of the order form, I don't want the jury to hear

16 that because I think we might have to consider hearing a

17 mistrial.

18 THE COURT: All right. I'm going to allow the

19 voir dire in the absence of the jury.

20 Are you prepared to do it now?

21 MR. GEDULDIG: Yes, Judge.

22 THE COURT: All right. Bring in the jury. I'm

23 going to excuse them for lunch then.
24 MR. WALLENSTEIN: My client wishes to absent
25 himself this afternoon in view of the fact that this

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1 testimony has nothing to do with Mr. Reffsin.

2 THE COURT: Does your client understand that he

3 has a right to be present at all phases of this tria l?

4 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Yes.

5 THE COURT: A constitutional right to be present.

6 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Yes.

7 THE COURT: That it is his benefit for him to be

8 here at all times.

9 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Yes.

10 THE COURT: If the jury sees that he's not here,

11 does he understand that they may not like that for some

12 reason?

13 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Yes, Your Honor.

14 THE COURT: He does understand it?

15 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Yes.

16 THE COURT: Do you?

17 DEFENDANT REFFSIN: I'm only asking for a

18 half-hour, Your Honor.

19 THE COURT: You can take more than that, but as

20 long as you understand that you have a right to be here

21 and it's in your best interest to be here.

22 DEFENDANT REFFSIN: Yes.

23 THE COURT: Then you may be excused.
24 MR. DUNN: While we are waiting for the witness
25 to come in, as Your Honor knows my client h as some back

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 and spinal problems. He has an electronic stimulator

2 device called a TENS unit.

3 THE COURT: I can't hear you, Mr. Dunn.

4 MR. DUNN: He has an electronic stimulator device

5 and a massage unit and he's wondering if he can bring that

6 into the building and at the break time to plug it into

7 the witness room so he can have a massage or up in 307

8 when that room is available. The reason I ask is anytime

9 things are brought into the building the marshals have to

10 get approval from the Court.

11 THE COURT: Well, at the lunch hour I'll have to

12 speak to them. You remind me and I'll talk to the

13 marshals about it.

14 MR. DUNN: Thank you, Your Honor.

15 THE COURT: The security of the building is up to

16 them, not me.

17 MR. DUNN: I understand.

18 THE COURT: I do not intrude upon their

19 decisions.

20 MR. DUNN: Thank you, Your Honor.

21 (Jury enters.)

22 THE COURT: Please be seated, members of the

23 jury.
24 As I explained to you when I went into the jury
25 room, we are discussing some legal problems that have

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 nothing to do with you and have been rather extensive as

2 far as time is concerned. We appreciate your patience but

3 we'll have to continue to discuss some things, so I do not

4 think it is necessary to keep you confined any further in

5 the jury room.

6 We'll recess for lunch as far as you're concerned

7 until 1:30. Hopefully we'll get what we have to do out of

8 the way.

9 So please don't discuss the case. Keep an open

10 mind. Thank you very much for y our patience and we'll see

11 you at 1:30.

12 Have a nice lunch. You don't have to eat from

13 now until 1:30.

14 (Jury exits.)

15 THE COURT: Do you want to bring the witness in,

16 Mr. White?

17 MR. WHITE: Yes.

18 Your Honor, should we first clarify with the

19 witness the point made when the order forms were made and

20 then the defense can ask questions?

21 THE COURT: Yes.

22 (Witness reenters.)

23 (Out of the presence of the jury.)
24 BY MR. WHITE:
25 Q Turning your attention back to the order forms,

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 Ms. Springer, do you remember being asked questions about

2 when those order forms were prepared in relation to when

3 the sale occurred?

4 A I'm sorry, say that again?

5 Q Do you remember being asked questions about when

6 those order forms were prepared in relation to when the

7 sale occurred?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Now, typically, to your knowledge, when was the order

10 form prepared in relation to the sale?

11 A As I was explaining before, it depended. Some people

12 wanted to immediately get back, some people meaning

13 telemarketers or salespeople, would want to make a lot of

14 sales, get their quota, so they would save it, let's say,

15 for the end of the day to write all of them up or during

16 lunch they would write them up. I can't say that everyone

17 did it that way but there were people that did and there

18 were ones immediately they got off the phone that would

19 write the orders. But they were instructed by the group

20 leaders, and I would remember --

21 MR. LEE: I would object as not being responsive.

22 THE COURT: Overruled.

23 BY MR. WHITE:
24 Q You may continue with that.
25 A I remember on thousands of times hearing, get back on

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 the phone, get back on the phone, get back on the phone,

2 get back on the phone and it was constant and it would be

3 not so much Mr. Gordon, although he walked around but not

4 as much as the group leaders would and that is what they

5 were instructed by Mr. Gordon to make sure they were on

6 the phone all the time.

7 THE COURT: No. The question is, with reasonable

8 certainty, how long would you say it took for the order

9 form to be filled out at the longest?

10 THE WITNESS: There were people who wrote them up

11 the next morning. They would write the name on the sales

12 sheet and the order form would be written up the next

13 morning, but it wasn't all the time.

14 THE COURT: But you said that they sometimes did

15 it at the end of the day or during lunch.

16 THE WITNESS: Right.

17 THE COURT: Or immediately.

18 THE WITNESS: Right. I'm sorry.

19 THE COURT: You say the furthest, the longest

20 period after the transaction would be the next day?

21 THE WITNESS: Would be the next morning and those

22 people would come in early.

23 THE COURT: All right.
24 THE WITNESS: But that would be very rare. That
25 would be if they had a phone call, let's say, at, you

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1 know, 10 to 5 in the afternoon and, you know, they were

2 leaving to go home, the order would be written up.

3 THE COURT: All right.

4 BY MR. WHITE:

5 Q So is it fair to say that typically the order forms

6 were filled out on the same day AS the sale?

7 A Yes.

8 MR. WHITE: Thank you. I have no further

9 questions.

10 THE COURT: All right. Anybody want to voir

11 dire?

12 Let's take it in order whoever wants it.

13 (Continued.)

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23
24
25

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1 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. NEVILLE:

3 Q Hello, Ms. Springer.

4 A Hello.

5 Q You worked at Who's Who Worldwide for a number of

6 years?

7 A Yes.

8 Q And you understood the inner workings of the

9 business?

10 A Yes, I did.

11 Q And today you are testifying that you were familiar

12 with the different documents and how they were managed in

13 the business?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And you spoke about the proce dures by which a sale

16 would be made and the documents would go through the

17 system in the company?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And that a prospective customer would send back a

20 lead card with information, right?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And then those lead cards would be distributed to

23 salespeople, telemarketers to him make calls?
24 A Yes.
25 THE COURT: You have to wait until the question

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 is over, Ms. Springer.

2 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

3 THE COURT: Just relax. Wait until the question

4 is over and then answer because if you talk at the same

5 time as the lawyer, the reporter will not be able to get

6 it down.

7 THE WITNESS: I've never done this before, so

8 excuse me.

9 THE COURT: I understand. It's perfectly

10 understandable, but I'm giving you advice to let there be

11 a slight pause before you answer.

12 THE WITNESS: Right.

13 THE COURT: Good. Okay?

14 THE WITNESS: Yes, absolutely.

15 BY MR. NEVILLE:

16 Q Besides, do you know if any prospective customer or

17 if a person who had received a solicitation letter never

18 sends back a lead card, that person would not get a cold

19 call as it is called from a telemarketer, would they?

20 A No.

21 Q Only those people who return the lead cards to Who's

22 Who would get the call from the telemarketer?

23 A Yes.
24 Q And when the salesperson calls, the individual who
25 had already shown interest by sending in the lead card,

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1 the salesperson would read from a pitch, as you said,

2 right?

3 A Yes.

4 Q A script .

5 A Yes.

6 Q Now, speaking hypothetically, if you know, and if you

7 don't know fine, but let's say that one day a person who

8 is a telemarketer, they get a pile of lead cards and that

9 salesperson calls the first name on the lead card and that

10 person isn't home or that person says "call me back when

11 my husband is here" or something like that, isn't it true

12 that on a later day that same, very same lead card could

13 be redistributed to another salesperson?

14 A Uhm, I -- I don't know if it's a couple days later,

15 I'm sorry, I think what they would do is make a couple of

16 calls and they would indicate on the back of the card

17 "left message, date, time" and I would say after the

18 third call, maybe second or third call, then it would be

19 who they called "recycled." But the salespeople would

20 keep those cards.

21 Q Because they would want to try to make a sale?

22 A Yes.

23 Q But it did happen, whether it was after one or two or
24 three calls, that lead cards would get recycled or
25 redistributed to other salespeople or other telemarketers

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1 to yet try again?

2 A Yes.

3 MR. NEVILLE: Okay.

4 Q Now, when the telemarketer who was speaking to the

5 prospective customer makes the sale, in other words, the

6 person who actually gets the sale and has the person agree

7 to purchase a membership, it is normally that person, that

8 telemarketer to whom the customer has agreed to commit

9 money to buying a membership, that gets credit for that

10 sale, gets the commission?

11 A Not necessarily.

12 Q Could you explain.

13 A When the cards are recycled, they will have the

14 handwr iting or initials of the person who attempted or

15 left messages with potential customers. So at that point

16 the person would call up on the phone and asked for John

17 Smith and they would say "well, I'm sorry but John Smith

18 is at a meeting right now, can I help you?" And that's

19 where a split commission would come into effect. The

20 person who was the person who sold them would be on the

21 top. They would get seven and-a-half percent commission.

22 The other person on the bottom would get the five percent,

23 depending sometimes if there was contests going where they
24 would get 20 percent commission or there was --
25 Q Incentives?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 A Yes, exactly, incentives.

2 Q At Who's Who Worldwide the salespeople, the

3 telemarketers had quotas to meet?

4 A Ye s.

5 Q And that was pretty strict, the quota, right?

6 A Sure.

7 Q Mr. Gordon was very, very strict with people making

8 quota, right?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And you probably witnessed or heard about people

11 being fired for not having made quota?

12 A I would say in the four and somewhat years I was

13 there, there had been a lot of people who left the company

14 and I'm not going to say they were all fired. There was a

15 very, very, very big turn around. And when I say big turn

16 around, I mean I probably had seen at least 400 people in

17 and out.

18 Q One of the reasons for the big turn around would be

19 the high pressure to make quota?

20 A Yes.

21 Q If a telemarketer is getting to the end of his or her

22 week and sees that he or she is short quota, did it ever

23 happen, as far as you know, that another salesperson who
24 had made quota or even had better quota that particular
25 week, would let that first salesperson, telemarketers who

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2610
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1 had not made quota have a sale or two or three or however

2 many it would take for that person on his or her own who

3 didn't make quota, make quota and avoid getting fired?

4 A I would say for the people that were the long time

5 people that were there with the company for two, three,

6 four, even with them from the beginning, and I don't know

7 if I should mention names or whatever it should be.

8 Q Well, go ahead, mention names.

9 A We had an Alan Saffer there.

10 THE COURT: Alan?

11 THE WITNESS: Alan S-A-F-F-E-R, and Maxes,

12 M-A-X-E-S. They were with the company a long time.

13 BY MR. NEVILLE:

14 Q What significance was that?

15 A When I fi rst got there they were there. There was

16 Martine (ph).

17 THE COURT: The question is, would some people

18 transfer sales? That's all. That was the question.

19 THE WITNESS: I would say yes, there was. I

20 can't tell you names of people but What I was trying to

21 get at or explain was that the people who had worked with

22 each other for a long period of time were close.

23 THE COURT: And they would be more likely --
24 THE WITNESS: They would be more apt to transfer.
25 THE COURT: To transfer sales?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 THE WITNESS: Exactly.

2 THE COURT: Do you know of any actual transfer of

3 sales?

4 THE WITNESS: I couldn't say. I wouldn't know.

5 I wouldn't remember.

6 THE COURT: Would there be any indication on the

7 papers where there was a transferred s ale?

8 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't recognize it. It could

9 be a code that the two salespeople had between each

10 other. I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know.

11 MR. NEVILLE: May I, Your Honor?

12 THE COURT: Yes.

13 BY MR. NEVILLE:

14 Q Let me ask you this. On the order form, I'm sorry, I

15 don't remember the number, 9 dash something, the exhibit

16 that you have there, the order form.

17 A I don't have it.

18 Q You don't have it.

19 MR. NEVILLE: Which one is it?

20 MR. WHITE: 9-C.

21 MR. NEVILLE: May I approach, Your Honor?

22 THE COURT: Sure.

23 BY MR. NEVILLE:
24 Q This is Government's Exhibit 9-C for Identification.
25 That's one of those order forms, right?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 A Yes.

2 Q And at the top right corner there is a line there

3 indicating the sales executive or salesperson who filled

4 out the order form, right?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And in this particular case that name is Scott

7 Michaelson, right?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And so based on the fact -- withdrawn.

10 This order form would be the internal official

11 internal document of Who's Who to designate to where or to

12 whom the credit for the sale would go, right?

13 A Yes.

14 Q So in other words, on this particular one that we are

15 referring to, Scott Michaelson would have gotten credit

16 for?

17 A Would have gotten the full commission.

18 Q My question is this. Based upon what you said about

19 people helping one another to make quota, to avoid the

20 wrath of Mr. Gordon, the fact that Scott Michaelson's name

21 is at the top of that order form doesn't necessarily mean,

22 does it, that he was the only person to h ave ever spoken

23 to the individual who signed up for the membership?
24 A In this particular circumstance you are referring
25 to? The only way I would be able to determine that is by

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 looking at the back of the card. It wouldn't determine it

2 because if the card was recycled three or four times,

3 there is no way you can possibly tell except through the

4 date. I don't know that aspect. I didn't get into the

5 technicalities of the group leaders' responsibility, to be

6 honest with you.

7 THE COURT: Excuse me. May I see one of these

8 order forms. In fact, a copy of each of these forms,

9 please.

10 Do I have them here?

11 MR. WHITE: Yes, Your Honor. Your Honor, it

12 should be in Exhibit 9-C. It should be in the first book.

13 THE COURT: Okay, I hav e it.

14 When it says on the top right-hand corner of the

15 Government's Exhibit 9-C "Scott Michaelson" it says

16 "account executive, number one, Scott Michaelson," what

17 does that mean?

18 THE WITNESS: You are asking me?

19 THE COURT: Yes.

20 THE WITNESS: Excuse me. That means that he sold

21 this individual.

22 THE COURT: Would anybody else have participated

23 in this sale? By looking at this record, could you tell?
24 THE WITNESS: By looking at this form, no.
25 THE COURT: By looking at this form could you say

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1 based upon the custom and practice of the company that

2 Scott Michaelson had something to do with the sale?

3 THE WITNESS: Yes.

4 BY MR. NEVILLE:

5 Q But you would also say, wouldn't you, by looking at

6 that paper you c an't tell whether or not some other

7 salesperson also spoke to that prospective customer?

8 A Somebody else could have called and made the initial

9 call.

10 Q Could have made the initial pitch?

11 A I don't -- it could be some people, they would have

12 to be pitched if they put it three or four times before.

13 Q Right. So in other words, there could be as a

14 hypothetical, a salesperson could make a pitch to someone,

15 that person says "call me tomorrow." That same salesperson

16 calls tomorrow, that person says "I'm sorry, I'm still

17 indisposed, call next week." The card gets recycled and

18 goes to salesperson two. They make the pitch again. In

19 my hypothetical we are talking about three different

20 pitches or three different conversations, two different

21 salespeople, and in my hypothetical the perspective

22 customer says "that sounds pretty good, soun ds expensive,

23 I like it. Let me think about it. Could you give me a
24 call back tomorrow, I want to discuss it with my wife."
25 Then that salesperson calls again and they say "yes, we're

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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Springer-voir dire/Neville


1 going to buy it" and they commit to buying. The order

2 form is filled out by whatever telemarketer happens to be

3 the one that the person commits to buy the membership

4 from. Is that right?

5 A It is right, but like I was saying, I don't even know

6 if I did say it, but in a lot -- and this may be going

7 off, you know, into a tangent of some sort, but there were

8 circumstances where there would be arguments between two

9 of the salespeople because they would call the person

10 let's say two weeks down or whatever when they have the

11 card and it was recycled again and say "gee , I called this

12 person two weeks ago, why didn't I get commissions on

13 this?" There were adjustments constantly and research

14 like why didn't I get involved in that.

15 Q There was a lot of desire to make money and get a

16 commission. That's what they were doing?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And this was their livelihood?

19 A It was their bread and butter.

20 MR. NEVILLE: May I approach, Your Honor?

21 THE COURT: At any time. You don't have to ask.

22 BY MR. NEVILLE:

23 Q I will ask you to look at Government's Exhibit 9-H
24 (handing.)
25 If you could tell us what that is?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 A This is a B-balance.

2 Q What does that mean, B-balance?

3 A The memberships are split bills, so let's say if it

4 is $490 for a lifetime membership -- well, in this

5 circumstance it was $137 that would be due before the

6 release of the registry. They would have to pay the $137

7 for the registry to be sent out to them.

8 So, letters with statements would be generated

9 and it would be going to the B-balance, which is what it

10 was, split billing balance.

11 Q Ms. Springer, at the top right-hand corner of this

12 exhibit, 9-H, is that what I said?

13 A This is 9-H.

14 Q Thank you.

15 There's a name of an account executive as there

16 was in the other order form that we have discussed where

17 in that other order form the name had been Scott

18 Michaelson. Here, however --

19 A Yes.

20 Q Here, however, there is a different name?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Do you recognize the name there?

23 A I recognize what this guy even looked like, I
24 remember.
25 Q What was it?

OWEN M. WIC KER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 A Kenneth McCarthy.

2 Q This is a second order form related to the first

3 order form that we've been discussing, the first order

4 form having a name of Scott Michaelson as the account

5 executive, right?

6 A Yes.

7 Q This one is the same customer, the same member, this

8 Rita Rieger person, right?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And this second order form has the name Kenneth

11 McCarthy up on the account executive's slot where Scott

12 Michaelson's name had been on the other order form we've

13 discussed?

14 A Yes.

15 Q So Kenneth McCarthy presumably, based on what you

16 said, would receive some of the commission for this

17 B-balance sale, right?

18 A He would be the one who would be listed on the

19 bottom. Yeah.

20 Q If Scott Michaelson found out that Kennet h McCarthy

21 gets the commission on this 100 some-odd dollars for the

22 registry, maybe Scott Michaelson would be upset about it

23 because make it was Scott's good salesmanship that got
24 Rita Rieger to buy this and not McCarthy, so it could
25 cause friction?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 A Absolutely.

2 Q So in any event, looking at 9-H, looking at the name

3 Kenneth McCarthy at the top right-hand corner, there's no

4 way without looking at the other order form in the other

5 records, there's no way that you would ever know that

6 Scott Michaelson even spoke to this person Rita Rieger.

7 You would first assume it was Kenneth McCarthy, right?

8 A Kenneth McCarthy spoke with Rita Rieger to get the

9 B-balance. She -- what this is, by looking at it, is this

10 woman had called up and said I received your letter, would

11 you please take the credit card number down and process so

12 I can get my registry. That's what this is.

13 Q Okay.

14 So in other words, this document shows that Rita

15 Rieger herself called Who's Who Worldwide to say that she

16 wanted the registry, is that what it says?

17 A That's what this form would be. It would be a

18 call-in.

19 Q The customer calling the business?

20 A Yes.

21 Q This wouldn't be a telemarketer chasing after a

22 customer?

23 A It could be. I mean, there was lists distributed
24 called dunning calls dunning letters. Mr. Michaelson
25 could have said I want to release your registry, with all

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2619
Springer-voir dire/Neville


1 the intentions known, he will still get the commission on

2 it. Could you please call me back with a credit card

3 number and send in a check, whatever method you would like

4 to pay, and he could have left this message and he could

5 have been on the phone when Mr. McCarthy got a phone call

6 from the operator of the companies which we are saying,

7 you know, I have Scott Michaelson's call, B-balance, will

8 you take it. That's how things worked.

9 Q If Scott Michaelson is on the phone and otherwise

10 indisposed, he can't take this call from Rita Rieger. The

11 call gets transferred to another available telemarketer,

12 is that what you said?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And in this case we can say it possibly happened here

15 where McCarthy, Mr. McCarthy was available when Rita

16 Rieger called or maybe Kenneth McCarthy called Rita

17 Rieger, could that be?

18 A I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know. There's a

19 possibility. I don't know if there was a list distribu ted

20 with people that owed the amounts, please, you know, call

21 these people. I done know. I was involved in that

22 department but not really. I didn't get myself involved

23 with their sales. I would ask them questions about their
24 order forms. I would ask them, you know, to verify credit
25 card numbers if we couldn't meet their handwriting. I

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2620
Springer-voir dire/Neville


1 would even pass on if phones were ringing off the hook. I

2 would even pick up and say here, Mike is on the phone

3 right now, can you take this call, John, whoever.

4 I know for a fact that's the way it was because

5 -- in fact, one more thing is that they were not -- the

6 receptionists were instructed not to take messages for --

7 like if Scott Michaelson went up to the receptionist

8 Nadine at the time and said, Nadine , can you do me a favor

9 and take all my messages, she would have gotten fired if

10 she did and he would have got everyone reamed for even

11 asking because they wanted -- think about how many calls

12 come in back and forward, not to get off the subject.

13 Q Very much on the subject.

14 Mr. Gordon would want a salesperson, whoever that

15 was, to speak to the individual who has called in because

16 there was a potential sale to be made?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And if you just left a message you might loose a

19 potential sale?

20 A Yes.

21 THE COURT: Excuse me one minute. Now, looking

22 at Government's Exhibit 9-C, is it the same kind of form

23 as Government's Exhibit 9-H?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes.
25 THE COURT: It doesn't look the same.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2621
Springer-voir dire/Neville


1 THE W ITNESS: This form? The information isn't

2 filled out.

3 THE COURT: No, no, forget the information. Is

4 it intended to be the same kind of form? For example, the

5 words "bill to" are on top of the form 9-C and the words

6 "bill to" are on the side of the form 9-H. That's on the

7 form itself but it is meant to be the form.

8 THE WITNESS: This original form that was written

9 up, they were instructed for the purposes of sending out

10 -- if they wanted their registry or their wall plaques to

11 go to a different address that was listed on the registry

12 --

13 THE COURT: No, you are missing my point.

14 THE WITNESS: Yes.

15 THE COURT: Looking at 9-C and 9-H, there are

16 slight differences on the type of form. Did I point out

17 to you where it says "bill to" is on the side of one,

18 "bill to" is on the top of another.

19 Do you see that?

20 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.

21 THE COURT: Is it, in your opinion, based upon

22 your knowledge of the records, are they still intended to

23 be the same type of record?
24 THE WITNESS: Oh, yes.
25 THE COURT: Looking at 9-C and 9-H, with two

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2622
Springer-voir dire/Neville


1 different names on the top upper right, who would be

2 entitled to the commission?

3 THE WITNESS: In this case -- there was changes

4 constantly being, you know, with commissions. I can't

5 tell you at this time in 1993 if Scott Michaelson would

6 get, you know, the total commission or if it would be

7 split with Kenneth McCarthy, because at one time this one

8 individual was entitled to that amount.

9 THE COURT: Do you have an opinion, in your

10 opinion, based upon your knowledge of the records and

11 procedures at Who's Who, at Who's Who Worldwide, would

12 Scott Michaelson be entitled to some part of the

13 commission?

14 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes.

15 THE COURT: Okay.

16 We are going to have to recess now.

17 What in this voir dire -- you may be excused

18 until 1:30. You will have to leave, right?

19 THE WITNESS: I have to pick my boyfriend up from

20 the hospital.

21 THE COURT: Okay. So you are coming back later?

22 THE WITNESS: Well, by 2 o'clock.

23 THE COURT: Okay. Then you take your time.
24 Don't get into any accidents or anything.
25 THE WITNESS: All right.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2623

1 THE COURT: You can be excused.

2 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

3 THE COURT: Now, Counsel for the defendants, what

4 else do you intend to bring out in this voir dire? Do you

5 intend to bring anything else out in the voir dire?

6 MR. NEVILLE: From my perspective, no, Your

7 Honor, I can't think of any.

8 THE COURT: What does anyone else wish to bring

9 out?

10 MR. DUNN: Your Honor, may I have a moment?

11 THE COURT: Sure.

12 (Counsel confer.)

13 MR. LEE: Judge, in response to your question, I

14 may ask her as far as other than perhaps sometimes

15 recognizing handwriting on the particular order form, does

16 she know who actually wrote the document? Is it just

17 based on the name that appears on the right-hand corner?

18 And I'm asking that in light of the fact that there was

19 this transferring of the sales to meet the quota that

20 someone else may have written somebody else's name in the

21 process of the secret quotas that were going on, I mean

22 transfers.

23 THE COURT: Mr. White, who will explain these
24 documents better than this witn ess? Anybody?
25 MR. WHITE: Yes, Your Honor. There are going to

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2624

1 be salespeople who worked at the company who will be able

2 to explain them.

3 THE COURT: Okay.

4 MR. WHITE: I just have one other point.

5 I think we are kind of wasting some time because

6 I believe Ms. Springer will be able to identify the

7 handwriting of all the defendants. In other words, for

8 this one we're talking about, 9-C, that is Scott

9 Michaelson's handwriting and the following ones I see are

10 all Scott Michaelson's handwriting, all the following for

11 each of the defendants.

12 If that is the case, they are admissions, they

13 come in as admissions. And the defense attorneys can

14 argue to the jury their clients knowingly put false

15 information for whatever reason, because they were

16 swapping sales or whatever. If they are talking about

17 admissibility, if they wrote it, put their name on it.

18 MR. DUNN: Your Honor, to elaborate what Mr. Lee

19 said in a response to what Mr. White said, this swapping

20 went the other way. For example, if the person had been

21 given a couple sales to make the quota for the week, had a

22 good week down the line, he would pay that person back.

23 THE COURT: Yes, I don't want to interrupt you,
24 Mr. Dunn, this is all very good on cross-examination and
25 cross-examination will reveal all of this. I'm interested

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2625

1 right now on admissibility. These documents, in my

2 opinion, are admissible as business records. Whether they

3 are -- whether they show participation in a conspiracy,

4 whether they show representation or misrepresentations

5 made to customers, whatever the result of that is another

6 matter. But I'm not going to go through voir dires

7 anymore, except as to admissibility. What they mean is

8 another matter.

9 MR. DUNN: I know.

10 THE COURT: There is enough facial evidence to

11 allow that in.

12 MR. DUNN: I know, Your Honor, but one of the

13 distinctions will be made whether it was against the

14 corporation or against the particular defendant.

15 THE COURT: Against the corporation and the

16 person who is named in this document, that's who it will

17 go in against for whatever purpose.

18 MR. SCHOER: To get back to the question Your

19 Honor asked, I would like Your Honor to charge that to the

20 jury.

21 THE COURT: I will. I will.

22 All right. Do you have another witness?

23 MR. WHITE: We do.
24 MS. SCOTT: Yes.
25 THE COURT: You are having problems with this

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2626

1 particular part of the case, Mr. White. It's like a

2 minefield here.

3 MR. LEE: I hate to bring this up, but in these

4 order forms, Your Honor, I don't know if Your Honor is

5 aware of it, but there are order forms that have names of

6 people who are unindicted co-conspirators.

7 THE COURT: Sure.

8 MR. LEE: I just want Your Honor to understand.

9 THE COURT: Okay. Will you put somebody else on

10 at 1:30?

11 MR. WHITE: Ms. Rieger who was put on yesterday

12 will come back.

13 THE COURT: Does anyone want to eat lunch here?

14 I know Mr. Geduldig wouldn't miss it no matter what.

15 MR. GEDULDIG: You know me well, Judge.

16 THE COURT: We'll recess until 1:30.

17 (Luncheon recess taken.)

18 (Continued.)

19

20

21

22

23
24
25

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2627
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N.

2 THE COURT: I want to make it clear my admission

3 was with respect to a general basis. I did not admit any

4 documents specifically as of now. We'll have to do that

5 on an exhibit by exhibit basis.

6 (Jury enters.)

7 THE COURT: Please be seated, members of the

8 jury.

9 You may proceed.

10 THE WITNESS: Am I sworn in already?

11 THE COURT: Well, we'll do it again just to make

12 sure.

13 R I T A R I E G E R , having been previously sworn by

14 the Clerk of the Court, was examined and testified as

15 follows:

16 THE WITNESS: My name is Rita Rieger,

17 R-I-E-G-E-R.

18 THE COURT: Have a seat, Ms. Rieger.

19 DIRECT EXAMINATION

20 BY MS. SCOTT: (Continued.)

21 Q Good afternoon.

22 A Good afternoon.

23 Q Could you tell us where you live?
24 A I live in Folsom, California.
25 Q What do you do for a living?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2628
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 A I'm a pharmacist.

2 Q What does your job involve?

3 A I receive prescriptions either written or called in,

4 I fill them, dispense them and give instructions as to the

5 use of the medication.

6 Q How long have you been doing that job?

7 A As I said yesterday, 1959, graduated from college in

8 1958 and did an internship from that year, but actually

9 since 1958.

10 Q Have you ever been contacted by a company called

11 Who's Who Worldwide Registry?

12 A Yes, I have.

13 Q And did you eventually purchase a membership from

14 them?

15 A Yes, I did.

16 Q And can you tell us approx imately when you were first

17 contacted by the company?

18 A I would guess sometime in 1993 because I moved in '94

19 and I had received the information that they were going to

20 send me by then, 1993.

21 Q How were you first contacted?

22 A By telephones, as far as I remember, I was called at

23 work.
24 Q Do you remember the name of the person that called
25 you?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2629
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 A I recall his name as Michael and that may be a part

2 of a name or a first name or a part of a last name because

3 --

4 THE COURT: You better repeat what you said.

5 THE WITNESS: I recall his name as Michael, and

6 that may be part of a name or a first or last part of a

7 first name or a part of a last name or all or one of the

8 other. I try to do name associations to remember

9 conversations because the job I do and one of the doctor's

10 name is Michael that I work with.

11 BY MS. SCOTT:

12 Q Did you eventually speak with this person over the

13 telephone?

14 A I believe I did. I think he called me back at work

15 on another day. At a time I had suggested would be a

16 reasonable time to call and it wouldn't be as busy.

17 Q You eventually spoke with somebody who said they were

18 from Who's Who Worldwide?

19 A Yes, and they either referred to the Michael person

20 or said they were. I'm not sure which is which, but there

21 was reference made to that original phone call.

22 Q Now, what happened when you eventually had a

23 conversation with the person from Who's Who Worldwide?
24 A This person told me that I had been nominated for a
25 very prestigious award to be included -- that I had been

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICI AL COURT REPORTER
2630
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 nominated for Who's Who in the World and I was familiar

2 with Who's Who because I've been in Who's Who Among

3 Students in American Colleges and Universities twice and I

4 had had other awards --

5 MR. GEDULDIG: Judge, I will object in that the

6 answer now is not responsive to the question.

7 THE COURT: Yes, motion granted.

8 You said that a person told you that you've been

9 nominated for Who's Who in the World?

10 THE WITNESS: Yes.

11 THE COURT: The jury is instructed to disregard

12 it. The answer should be disregarded.

13 BY MS. SCOTT:

14 Q You said that somebody nominated you. Did this

15 person give an indication who had nominated you?

16 A I asked and they said that was not readily revealable

17 information or they couldn't find that information for me

18 at that point and it w as usually an anonymous thing as far

19 as I was concerned if a person was a member of Who's Who

20 already.

21 Q Now, I'm showing you Government's Exhibit 9-D which

22 is in evidence (handing.)

23 THE COURT: 9-D is in evidence?
24 MR. WHITE: D as in Daniel.
25 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, I'm not sure it is in

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2631
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 evidence.

2 THE COURT: I'm not sure either.

3 MS. SCOTT: Okay. Your Honor, it's for

4 Identification.

5 BY MS. SCOTT:

6 Q Do you recognize that?

7 A Yes, it's definitely my writing.

8 Q What is that document?

9 A It says please include me as a candidate for

10 inclusion in the Who's Who Registry, Platinum Edition.

11 MR. LEE: Objection, Your Honor. Move to strike

12 the answer.

13 THE COURT: Sustained. 9-D?

14 B Y MS. SCOTT:

15 Q Ms. Rieger, --

16 THE COURT: -- Excuse me. 9-D I have is the

17 addressee portion of a letter. Is that what it is?

18 MS. SCOTT: No, Your Honor. It's a lead card.

19 THE COURT: Well, you show me what you say 9-D

20 is.

21 MS. SCOTT: (Handing and indicating.)

22 THE COURT: Have you got another copy of this?

23 MS. SCOTT: I'll see if I can find one.
24 Your Honor, our copies are on one side as well.
25 THE COURT: All right. You may proceed and you

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2632
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 will have to show me, if there is any objection. Then

2 I'll have to take a look at it.

3 BY MS. SCOTT:

4 Q Ms. Rieger, can you tell us without reading it what

5 that is?

6 A A card received to fill in for this company.

7 Q Who did you receive it from?

8 A I would guess it i s from Who's Who Worldwide.

9 MR. SCHOER: Objection as to her guessing.

10 THE COURT: When you say you guess --

11 THE WITNESS: Well --

12 THE COURT: Excuse me. Relax, will you?

13 THE WITNESS: Excuse me. I'm trying.

14 THE COURT: When you say I guess, that may be a

15 figure of speech that laypeople use, but in court we don't

16 allow people to guess about things generally. So when you

17 say you guess, does that mean with reasonable certainty

18 you received it from a certain source, is that what you

19 mean?

20 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.

21 THE COURT: Do you understand what I'm saying?

22 THE WITNESS: I certainly do. Yes, I'm sorry.

23 THE COURT: All right. So where did you receive
24 it?
25 THE WITNESS: Where did I receive it?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2633
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 THE COURT: I m ean, from whom did you receive it?

2 THE WITNESS: From Who's Who Worldwide.

3 MS. SCOTT: I offer Government's Exhibit 9-D.

4 THE COURT: Any objection?

5 MR. SCHOER: I have no objection, but may I see

6 the original, please?

7 THE COURT: Yes.

8 MR. SCHOER: Thank you.

9 THE COURT: Any objection?

10 MR. SCHOER: No, Judge.

11 THE COURT: All right. Government's Exhibit 9-D

12 in evidence.

13 (Government's Exhibit 9-D received in evidence.)

14 BY MS. SCOTT:

15 Q Ms. Rieger, taking a look at that lead card there,

16 can you tell us whether there is a postmark on it?

17 A Yes, I have to take my glasses out.

18 Mailed from Sacramento, California, 14, December,

19 1992.

20 THE COURT: Did you say mailed from Sacramento

21 California?

22 THE WITNESS: That's what the postmark is.

23 BY MS. SCOTT:
24 Q Did you mail this card from Sacramento on December
25 14, 1992?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2634
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 A Yes.

2 Q Going back to your conversations with the person who

3 called you from Who's Who Worldwide, what did this person

4 tell you about how members were selected for membership in

5 the company?

6 A He said that they were selected by nomination of

7 other members.

8 Q And what did he say happened after a person was

9 nominated by another member?

10 A That the data that we submitted would be considered

11 by a Board of Directors to be determined. Then it would

12 be determined by that Board of Directors whether or not we

13 would be included in the registry or whether we would be

14 included in the registry.

15 Q Were you told anything about what percentage of

16 nominees would be accepted for members hip?

17 MR. SCHOER: Objection.

18 THE COURT: Yes. Don't lead the witness,

19 please.

20 BY MS. SCOTT:

21 Q How many nominees were you told would be accepted for

22 membership?

23 MR. TRABULUS: Objection. Same objection, Your
24 Honor.
25 THE COURT: Yes, sustained.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2635
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 BY MS. SCOTT:

2 Q Ms. Rieger, what else were you told about the

3 selection process?

4 A I was told that the nomination was valid for a

5 certain length of time, but there were varying degrees of

6 years that one could subscribe to for membership. That

7 when those memberships were up, if the person didn't

8 review it, then that slot became available for someone

9 else. And that would come from the nominations of other

10 members to fill it.

11 Q Was that the only way that a slot could become

12 available?

13 A That was my understanding.

14 Q Now, what were you told were your chances of becoming

15 a member?

16 MR. SCHOER: Objection.

17 THE COURT: You will not be able to lead the

18 witness on these conversations. In other words, you will

19 say what was the conversation.

20 What else, if anything, was said? Please don't

21 tell us what you think was said.

22 BY MS. SCOTT:

23 Q What were you told about how long the company had
24 been in business?
25 MR. JENKS: Objection.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2636
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 MR. SCHOER: Objection.

2 THE COURT: Sustained.

3 BY MS. SCOTT:

4 Q Ms. Rieger, what else do you remember about your

5 conversation with the person from Who's Who Worldwide?

6 A I recall that there weren't a whole lot available,

7 that there were a few slots available from a company that

8 had been in business a long time that were well-known as

9 providers of recognition for those who were worthy. I had

10 referenced being acquainted from Who's Who from previous

11 experience, and it seemed to me --

12 MR. LEE: Objection, Your Honor.

13 THE COURT: Yes. The question is, was anything

14 else said to you? Now think about it. Was anything else

15 said in the conversation by this person you were talking

16 to?

17 THE WITNESS: I thought that's what I was

18 relating, sir.

19 THE COURT: Anything else?

20 THE WITNESS: Yes. That everybody who was

21 nominated wasn't accepted for membership. I'm at a loss

22 to know what is acceptable and what isn't.

23 THE COURT: The question is, what was the
24 conversation? What did this man tell you? That's the
25 question. A nd if you've told us everything he has told

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2637
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 you, that's the end of the answer. Is there anything else

2 he told you that you can think about now?

3 THE WITNESS: There are only -- there was only a

4 small chance you would be accepted into membership and it

5 would be taken under advisement, the information that we

6 provided them.

7 Q What were you told a membership would offer to you?

8 MR. NELSON: Objection.

9 THE COURT: Do you want to come up, Counsel?

10 MS. SCOTT: Yes.

11 (Side bar.)

12 THE COURT: Now, I better lay the foundation for

13 what will be. I suppose you will have other witnesses.

14 The witnesses will have to testify of their own

15 knowledge and remembrance as to what the conversations

16 were. I'm not going to allow you that leeway. I will not

17 allow that. If you bring out that their memory may not be

18 clear or they may have forgotten, if you have something

19 that will refresh their recollection, I'll let you use

20 that.

21 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, may I submit one thing.

22 These are questions about subject areas that are touched

23 upon. It's not a leading question about what they are
24 told. It actually just refers them to the subject area of
25 the conversation. That's all I'm doing with these

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2638
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 questions.

2 THE COURT: I'm not allowing it.

3 MS. SCOTT: Okay.

4 THE COURT: This is the crucial part of the case

5 as far as the fraud is concerned. I'm not allowing you to

6 give them any hints by mentioning subjects. If their

7 recollection isn't clear and you want to refresh their

8 reco llection, you have a statement made by them or

9 anything else, you can show it to them, but I'm not going

10 to allow you to give them hints to tip them off as to what

11 they forgot to say. If they forget, they forget and so be

12 it.

13 (End side bar.)

14 (An unrelated matter was taken by the Court.)

15 THE COURT: You know, there are no positives in

16 the federal court among judges. I will give you an inside

17 information that even the Chief Judge of the district is

18 not my boss. I am independent. That's what makes the

19 federal courts so unique. However, when he calls, I

20 jump.

21 Okay. Where are we?

22 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, I thought there was

23 another recurring issue we needed to iron out.
24 THE COURT: You want to iron it out yet? I
25 thought I ironed it out.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2639
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 MR. WHITE: This may save time, Your Honor.

2 THE COURT: Come up.

3 (Side bar.)

4 MR. WHITE: I just want to make sure since this

5 is the first witness and there will be a recurring

6 pattern. The statement that the witness identifies that

7 she can recall, she was told, which are the subject of the

8 indictment which are alleged to be misrepresentations in

9 the indictment, we intend to ask her about.

10 Since materiality is a key issue in the case, any

11 materiality made about misrepresentation, if she said, for

12 example, I was told that I was nominated, we intended to

13 ask her with specificity can you tell us how that

14 statement that you were nominated which you just recounted

15 affected your decision to purchase, if at all.

16 THE COURT: Yes, I'll let you say that.

17 Absolutely. But I don't want any help to the witness a t

18 this crucial point as far as giving them hints as to,

19 well, did they say anything about committing murders? Did

20 they say anything about rapes? Did they say anything

21 about robberies? I don't want that. I'm not going to

22 allow it. If they object, unless they want it, then they

23 will not object, but if they object I will not allow it.
24 In other words, if the witness has to spontaneously or if
25 her memory needs to be refreshed as to these very

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2640
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 important portions of the case.

2 MR. WHITE: I wasn't up here to reargue the case,

3 Your Honor, but as far as where we go from here.

4 THE COURT: Well, if it affects you, of course.

5 MR. WHITE: Step two, materiality.

6 THE COURT: The United States Supreme Court

7 decided that.

8 MR. WHITE: That's true , even though the jury is

9 a fact-finder, the deciding body here it will be a

10 disputed issue at trial.

11 THE COURT: That's why you have to bring it out.

12 MR. WHITE: The part two that we intend to bring

13 out that it's material, it will be subject to connection.

14 This witness can't testify about it, but this witness was

15 in fact taken from a mailing list and documents and

16 evidence will reflect it and other witnesses will reflect

17 that later on in the trial. And we intended to ask the

18 witness if the method of selection had been by mailing

19 list, not by nomination, would that have affected her

20 decision. Is that a permissible question?

21 THE COURT: Yes, I'll let you do that, but I will

22 tell the jury there is no such evidence in the case, this

23 is subject to connection. If it's not connected, they are
24 to disregard it.
25 MR. WHITE : That will be a recurring thing.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2641
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 THE COURT: You are giving me a good faith

2 representation you will connect it, right?

3 MR. WHITE: Oh, yes.

4 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, with regard to the

5 question of materiality, I'm concerned that the jury may

6 get confused between a particular decision that was made

7 by an individual member and the overall question of

8 materiality. As I understand the law of materiality, the

9 question is not whether or not the statement or

10 misstatement happened to effect this particular individual

11 but whether by its nature under I guess an objectively

12 reasonable type standard is of such a type to effect

13 somebody. So there is the danger of the jury confusing

14 what a particular individual claims would have affected

15 them and the issue of materiality which is really

16 independent with what happened in that particular person's

17 mind.

18 THE COURT: That may be, but I may have to cover

19 that in my charge if you so request but I'll allow the

20 government to go into whether -- that would be the basic

21 question. "If you knew this, would you have purchased

22 this book?" Absolutely. I will allow him to say that.

23 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, may I have a
24 continuing objection to that question as well as the
25 second question which Mr. White mentioned with regard to

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 the mailing list rather than have to get up all the time.

2 MR. SCHOER: May I be heard with respect to the

3 mailing list question?

4 THE COURT: Yes.

5 MR. SCHOER: That question only becomes

6 permissible, it seems to me , when the witness has

7 indicated that they asked that question -- I don't think

8 the government's position is Who's Who Worldwide had to

9 affirmatively tell everyone who called that their name

10 came from a mailing list. So unless the witness asked

11 whether or not my name came from a mailing list, it's not

12 material to the bargain and the question shouldn't even be

13 asked.

14 THE COURT: Overruled. I'm going to allow him to

15 ask it. This witness testified that she was told she was

16 nominated by someone, I don't recall what, nominated by

17 someone.

18 MR. JENKS: Anonymous, or by another member.

19 THE COURT: The person told me I was nominated

20 from -- for Who's Who in the World. I was told someone

21 nominated me. They couldn't find who nominated me. It's

22 usually anonymous whether a person is a member of Who's

23 Who nominated me. I was sel ected by a nomination by other
24 members. That's another part of her testimony.
25 The data was submitted, considered by the Board

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2643
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 of Directors whether we would be included.

2 No. Under that basis, I'll allow it.

3 Overruled.

4 (End side bar.)

5 BY MS. SCOTT:

6 Q Ms. Rieger, are you able to remember everything that

7 was said to you in that conversation from the person with

8 Who's Who Worldwide?

9 A I would say not.

10 MR. GEDULDIG: May I ask Ms. Scott to speak into

11 the microphone. I'm having a hard time hearing her.

12 THE COURT: She generally speaks up, now she is

13 getting softer, not that you are not soft, of course, but

14 a little softer.

15 MS. SCOTT: All right.

16 BY MS. SCOTT:

17 Q Is there anything that would refresh your

18 recollection about what you were told?

19 A Could be.

20 Q I'm showing you Government's Exhibit 3500-RR-1.

21 Can you take a look at that document for a few

22 minutes?

23 A (Perusing.) Okay.
24 Q Does that document refresh your recollection about
25 anything else that was said to you during the

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2644
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 conversation?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Can you tell us what that is?

4 A (Perusing.)

5 MR. LEE: Objection, Your Honor.

6 THE COURT: Will you tell me she shouldn't read

7 from this document.

8 MR. LEE: Yes.

9 THE COURT: Now, Ms. Rieger, we've been through

10 this before. You cannot read from that document because

11 it is not in evidence. You don't have to turn it down,

12 leave it up. However, you can look at it. If it

13 refres hes your recollection, you can testify as to your

14 refreshed recollection, but please do not just read from

15 the document.

16 Do you follow what I'm saying?

17 THE WITNESS: I do.

18 THE COURT: Okay.

19 THE WITNESS: Yes.

20 THE COURT: Now, go ahead.

21 BY MS. SCOTT:

22 Q Can you tell us what that document reminds you of,

23 Ms. Rieger?
24 A It reminds me that the person I spoke with said he
25 had been employed by the company for years. He also said

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2645
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 there was something like a 16 percent acceptance rate of

2 the people who applied for membership in the organization;

3 that they wanted a representation of broad spectrum of

4 professions. I think that's about it.

5 Q Ms. Rieger, what was the most important thing they

6 told you that would wan t you to purchase this membership?

7 MR. LEE: Objection, Your Honor.

8 THE COURT: Overruled.

9 A The fact that I had been nominated by a person.

10 Q Now, why did you think this purchase would be

11 advantageous to you?

12 A At that particular time I was interested in taking

13 class in creative writing and I thought perhaps that would

14 be a good way to network with other people who were in the

15 publishing or writing business.

16 Q Was there any -- withdrawn.

17 How did your perception that members were

18 nominated for membership relate to your understanding that

19 this was a valuable membership for you?

20 MR. JENKS: Objection.

21 THE COURT: Read it back, please.

22 (Record read.)

23 THE COURT: Sustained.
24 BY MS. SCOTT:
25 Q Ms. Rieger, the information that you had been

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

2646
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 nominated and other members that had been nominated, how,

2 if at all, did that relate to your perception this was a

3 valuable networking tool for you?

4 MR. JENKS: Objection.

5 THE COURT: Sustained.

6 Q How did the information that you had been nominated

7 affect your perception of the book?

8 MR. TRABULUS: Objection.

9 MR. JENKS: Objection.

10 THE COURT: Overruled. If at all. Did it affect

11 your perception?

12 THE WITNESS: Absolutely.

13 THE COURT: How?

14 THE WITNESS: I figured if someone had vouched

15 for my being by nominating me for an award of this merit

16 -- of this scope, that it would lend a lot to the fact

17 that someone really thought that I was outstanding and

18 that I had been nominated by someone. If you had to be a

19 member of the organization to nominate someone else, of

20 course that would lend credence to the nomination process

21 itself. If they had been deemed worthy of honest

22 themselves and they chose to say -- to say that I was

23 worthy of an honor of such a fact, it would lend a lot of
24 credence to my nomination to this organization.
25 Q And what sort of credence are you talking about?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2647
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1 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, move to strike because

2 the question was in relation to the book. She has

3 testified concerning the nomination.

4 THE COURT: Motion denied.

5 BY MS. SCOTT:

6 Q And what kind of credence do you mean?

7 A Well, if you weren't nominated by someone who could

8 vouch for your character and I feel like nomination for

9 this sort of an honor would include that, that you had to

10 be an outstanding, upstanding as well, person and someone

11 would have to know what kind of pharmacist I was, for

12 instance, to think that I was worthy of this sort of an

13 award. I wouldn't have wanted the registry at all if I

14 hadn't thought it was based on that sort of meritorious

15 nomination.

16 Q If in fact your name had been obtained not by

17 nomination from another member, but from a mailing list,

18 would that have affected your decision to buy the

19 membership?

20 A Absolutely. I wouldn't have wanted it.

21 Q Why is that?

22 A Because a mailing list doesn't do anything to sort

23 out what kind of person you are, you could be a sleaze
24 bucket and still be on a list, a mailing list, for heavens
25 sake.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2648
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 Q How much did you pay for your membership?

2 A They offer ed different length memberships and I opted

3 for the lifetime membership which is $490.

4 Q And how did you pay for it?

5 A By credit card.

6 Q How did you give them, Who's Who Worldwide, your

7 credit card number?

8 A I gave it by phone.

9 Q Now, I'm showing you Government's Exhibits 9-B and

10 9-E for Identification.

11 Do you recognize those?

12 A Yes, I do.

13 Q What are they?

14 A They are billing for the membership.

15 Q How did you obtain those?

16 A Through the mail.

17 MS. SCOTT: I offer Government's Exhibits 9-B and

18 9-E.

19 THE COURT: Any objection?

20 Government's Exhibit 9-B for Baker and 9-E for

21 Easy in evidence.

22 (Government's Exhibits 9-B and 9-E received in

23 evidence.)
24 BY MS. SCOTT:
25 Q Showing you Government's Exhibit 9-F for Frank for

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2649
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 Identification.

2 Do you recognize that?

3 A Yes, I do.

4 Q What is that?

5 A That is a typewritten note by me to Who's Who

6 Worldwide. That asks them to make the biographical data

7 changes to read as follows regarding my biography.

8 MS. SCOTT: I offer Government's Exhibit 9-F as

9 in Frank.

10 THE COURT: Any objection?

11 Government's Exhibit 9-F, for fox, in evidence.

12 (Government's Exhibit 9-F received in evidence.)

13 BY MS. SCOTT:

14 Q Taking a look at Government's Exhibit 9-B.

15 What information is contained in that document?

16 A 9-B, okay. (Perusing.) It says Who's Who Worldwide

17 19 -- better get the glasses on again, 1983 --

18 THE COURT: Well, you will not go through all of

19 this. What do you have in mind?

20 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, the date an d amount and

21 what it commemorates.

22 THE WITNESS: Okay.

23 A Addressed to Rita Rieger, dated 2/4/93, invoice
24 number, and it has on here reference 105, one lifetime
25 member, split billing Who's Who Registry, Who's Who Global

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2650
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 Business Leaders, one Who's Who custom wall plaque, 9 by

2 12 lifetime, complimentary privileges and service, $490

3 plus $7 shipping charges.

4 Q What information is contained lower down on that

5 invoice?

6 A It has my business as a health care -- I'm a service

7 provider type of organization, acute care unit, University

8 Medical Clinic. Area of distribution, campus and visiting

9 students. Expertise, drug dispensing. Parent

10 organization, State University at Sacramento. Favorite

11 book, author -- do you want me to read the a nswers to them

12 too?

13 Q You don't need to read the answers, Ms. Rieger.

14 Is this information about yourself that you

15 provided to Who's Who Worldwide?

16 A Yes, it is.

17 Q Now, if you take a look at Government's Exhibit 9-F

18 for Frank, what is that?

19 A That's my addendum to this information.

20 Q And what were you doing when you gave them that

21 addendum?

22 A Giving them a corrected list of information that they

23 had listed on this invoice that would be published in the
24 directory.
25 Q Did you receive a plaque in connection with this

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2651
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 membership?

2 A Yes, I did.

3 Q And did you receive a directory?

4 A Yes. Yes, I did.

5 Q What happened when you received the directory?

6 A I thought something was strange. It just didn't seem

7 like something that you would pay $500 for.

8 Q What, if anything --

9 A I also got an invoice for $97 more and when I called

10 and asked them about that, they said, well, that was what

11 the split billing statement meant on the original invoice.

12 MR. LEE: Objection, Your Honor.

13 THE COURT: On what ground?

14 MR. LEE: Testimony as to her state of mind at

15 that time in the past.

16 THE COURT: State of mind.

17 MR. LEE: Her reaction.

18 THE COURT: Her reaction to it?

19 MR. LEE: I didn't say reaction.

20 THE COURT: I'm sorry, can't hear you.

21 MR. LEE: I thought it was improper as an

22 evidentiary matter. State of mind testimony. What

23 happened in the past.
24 THE COURT: Well, I'll overrule the objection.
25 Next question.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2652
Riege r-direct/Scott


1 You got another invoice for $97, you say?

2 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.

3 BY MS. SCOTT:

4 Q What happened when you saw this invoice?

5 A My blood pressure went up.

6 Q Why?

7 MR. LEE: I object.

8 THE COURT: Yes, strike it out.

9 You want to proceed with that without getting her

10 emotional state involved.

11 MS. SCOTT: Yes, Your Honor.

12 THE WITNESS: I was angry there was virtually

13 another $100 more that would be charged. It was my

14 understanding, actually from the card that I had sent in

15 even, it said that on this card, uhm, there is no charge

16 or obligation on your part for inclusion in the registry.

17 So I called them and asked why I had received another bill

18 for $97 and was told that it was on -- it was stated on

19 the invoice that it was a split billing and I figured

20 since I had been dumb enough to give them my credit card

21 number with the expiration date, that they charged it to

22 me and I decided it wasn't worth the fight.

23 MR. LEE: Objection.
24 THE COURT: Yes, sustained. Starting with "I was
25 dumb enough" is sustained and it is stricken. Disregard

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2653
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 it.

2 BY MS. SCOTT:

3 Q You testified that you called and spoke with someone

4 at the company?

5 A Yes, I did.

6 Q What did you ask that person to do?

7 A I asked them to explain to me why I was being billed

8 for another $97.

9 Q Had anyone told you prior to that that you would be

10 billed for another $97?

11 A I had not understood that, no. It was my

12 understanding from the card saying there is no charge or

13 obligation on your part for inclusion in the registry,

14 that that would have been covered. In fact, I believed

15 that the $490 included the registry, the plaque and all

16 other services that would be rendered by that company.

17 MR. SCHOER: Objection.

18 MR. NELSON: Objection, Your Honor. I ask that

19 the answer be stricken as unresponsive to the question.

20 THE COURT: And I believe. The jury is

21 instructed to disregard it.

22 THE WITNESS: May I restate it?

23 MS. SCOTT: I'll rephrase the question, Your
24 Honor.
25 BY MS. SCOTT:

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2654
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 Q Why did you or what was your reason for asking for a

2 refund?

3 A I thought that I had already paid for it in the

4 $490 --

5 MR. SCHOER: Objection. There is no testimony

6 that she asked for any refund.

7 THE COURT: Is that your objection?

8 MR . SCHOER: Yes, Judge.

9 THE COURT: Overruled.

10 BY MS. SCOTT:

11 Q And why is it that you believed you were entitled to

12 a refund?

13 MR. JENKS: Objection.

14 THE COURT: Did you say you were entitled to a

15 refund?

16 THE WITNESS: I believed that I had already paid

17 for the registry.

18 THE COURT: Well, did you mention refund when you

19 called them or did you say --

20 THE WITNESS: I asked them why I was being

21 charged another $97 when I already paid another $490 to

22 the company.

23 THE COURT: So the word "refund" is not in the
24 picture, Ms. Scott.
25 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, I apologize but I'm a

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2655
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 little bit confused about what is in the record or what

2 isn't. So if necessary I might ask the court for a

3 readbac k so I can figure out where --

4 THE COURT: There is no need for that. The

5 witness said she called up and asked why was she charged

6 another $90 some-odd. I didn't hear any refund

7 mentioned.

8 BY MS. SCOTT:

9 Q Can you explain why you were confused why you had

10 been charged for this additional $97?

11 MR. JENKS: Objection. Asked and answered.

12 THE COURT: It's repetitious. She's already

13 explained it.

14 MS. SCOTT: That was my confusion as to what is

15 in the record and what is not and if I'm asking a

16 repetitious question it's because I'm not sure whether the

17 initial answer is in the record.

18 THE COURT: It seems very clear to me. The

19 witness testified she got another bill for $97. She

20 called up and said why am I charged another $97. I

21 thought the $400 some-odd covered it. Isn't that what

22 happened?

23 T HE WITNESS: That's correct.
24 BY MS. SCOTT:
25 Q And where did you get the impression that the $490

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2656
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 covered the directory?

2 A (Perusing.) On the invoice it says "lifetime

3 membership/split billing Who's Who Registry, Who's Who

4 Global Business Leaders, one Who's Who custom wall plaque

5 9 by 12 lifetime, complimentary privileges and services."

6 THE COURT: You have to slow down, very much

7 slower. We don't have -- the jury doesn't have that

8 document in front of them.

9 THE WITNESS: Okay.

10 THE COURT: They have to listen to what you're

11 saying and I know you are not used to this.

12 THE WITNESS: You're right.

13 THE COURT: But you have to go slow.

14 THE WITNESS: Okay.

15 THE COURT: Okay.

16 THE WITNESS: Where do you want me to back up

17 to?

18 THE COURT: I think you should start all over

19 again.

20 THE WITNESS: Okay. The reason I felt the

21 registry was covered, it is listed on the invoice that

22 came from Who's Who Worldwide dated 2/4/93. On that

23 invoice is listed " one lifetime membership/split billing,
24 Who's Who Registry, Who's Who Global Business Leaders, one
25 Who's Who custom wall plaque 9 by 12." There's one line

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2657
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 that is given to the word "lifetime." I don't know what

2 that is relative to, but underneath it is "complimentary

3 privileges and services. Membership total, $490.

4 Shipping charges $7, for a total of $97."

5 To me in the business that I'm in when you get an

6 invoice like that, the bottom line indicates that

7 everything above was included on that invoice.

8 MR. SCHOER: Objection.

9 THE COURT: Overruled.

10 BY MS. SCOTT:

11 Q Now, Ms. Rieger, could you read the language in the

12 lower -- in the box at the bottom of the invoice that is

13 in a blue box.

14 A Yes.

15 Q Can you tell us what that language says?

16 A "Important information. By membership preference and

17 for your convenience the membership amount is split

18 billed. The first payment as shown is due now. Your

19 custom wall plaque will be shipped within two weeks of

20 payment. The final payment of $97 is due in December when

21 the Who's Who registry is released. Your membership

22 privileges have already been activated. You may use Who's

23 Who Worldwide as a credit reference."
24 Q Now, when you received the invoice containing this
25 language, was that before or after you had made the

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL C OURT REPORTER
2658
Rieger-direct/Scott


1 purchase for the membership?

2 A It was after I talked to them on the phone and had

3 given them my numbers, I believe -- I'm not sure.

4 Q Were you contacted again by the company after

5 receiving the directory?

6 A Well, I got an invoice with that for $97.

7 Q After receiving the $97 invoice, did you receive any

8 other communications from the company?

9 A Oh, yes. I got a couple of newsletters and I'm not

10 certain but I received a template and a little pocket

11 organizer, I think it was, with a logo on it.

12 Q Did you use the book for networking?

13 A No, I did not.

14 Q Can you tell us why that was?

15 A After I looked at it I just didn't think that it had

16 the merit that I thought it would have and so the people

17 who were listed in it.

18 Q Were you ever able to find the person who had

19 nominated you from looking at the book?

20 A No, I was not.

21 Q When you say that you didn't want to use the book for

22 networking because of the people in it, what did you mean

23 by that?
24 A Well, I thought that some of the biographies weren't
25 really, really outstanding. I just really didn't feel

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2659
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 this was Global Business Leaders particularly.

2 MS. SCOTT: I have no further questions. Thank

3 you, Your Honor.

4 THE COURT: All right. Cross-examination.

5 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, may I just have a

6 moment?

7 THE COURT: Yes.

8 MR. JENKS: Judge, I'll give Mr. Trabulus some

9 time to collect his thoughts. I'll ask a few questions.

10 THE COURT: Very well.

11 CROSS-EXAMINATION

12 BY MR. JENKS:

13 Q Good aftern oon, Ms. Rieger.

14 A Good afternoon.

15 Q Ms. Rieger --

16 A Your name is?

17 Q I'm Mr. Jenks, Ms. Rieger.

18 A Thank you.

19 Q J-E-N-K-S. I'm the attorney for Who's Who Worldwide,

20 okay.

21 A Okay.

22 Q You came in from California, I take it, correct?

23 A That's correct.
24 Q And did you fly in over the weekend?
25 A Yes, I did.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2660
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 Q And did the government pay your expenses, I take it,

2 to fly you from California?

3 A I'm assuming they did.

4 Q Well, when you say you are assuming, you don't expect

5 to have to pay to come from California to testify in New

6 York without being reimbursed for your trip by the United

7 States Government through Mr. White and Mrs. Scott; am I

8 correct?

9 A I think that's part of the agreement, yes.

10 Q Well, the agreement is that the United States

11 Government -- withdrawn.

12 Would it be fair to say that the United States

13 Government asked you to come here to testify in this

14 trial?

15 A Yes, I was subpoenaed for that.

16 Q All right.

17 But prior to your being subpoenaed for that, you

18 were contacted by telephone from a member of the United

19 States Government, is that true?

20 A Yes.

21 Q And did Inspector Biegelman or Martin Biegelman

22 contact you about coming here to testify in this case?

23 A I don't remember talking to Mr. Biegelman.
24 Q All right.
25 A I got a questionnaire from him.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2661
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 Q You got a questionnaire from him.

2 MR. JENKS: If I can have the original

3 questionnaire, Ms. Scott.

4 Q That's 3500-RR-1.

5 A Yes.

6 Q Now, the date of that questionnaire is June 14, 1995;

7 am I correct?

8 A That's right.

9 Q Prior to June 14, 1995 when you received this

10 questionnaire, had anyone from the United States

11 Government contacted you?

12 A No.

13 Q Prior to the receipt of this questionnaire, had you

14 made any complaints to any federal agency concerning the

15 business practices of Who's Who Worldwide?

16 A No.

17 Q Had you made any complaints to any Better Business

18 Bureau regarding the business practices of Who's Who

19 Worldwide?

20 A No.

21 Q Did you make any complaints to any state agency or

22 any consumer agency either in New York or in California

23 concerning anything that you had had with Who's Who
24 Worldwide?
25 A No.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

2662
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 Q All right.

2 So up until the time the United States Government

3 contacted you, you have not gone anyplace to complain

4 about anything that had happened with your transaction

5 concerning Who's Who Worldwide, is that fair to say?

6 A Well, I complained to the company about the billing,

7 yes.

8 Q Well, that's a separate issue.

9 I'm talking about, I don't want to talk about the

10 billing right now. I'm talking about, did you make any

11 complaints to any agency regarding the practices of

12 Barbara Walters of Who's Who Worldwide prior to the

13 receipt of this questionnaire?

14 A If you start feeling like you've been done, you don't

15 advertise it.

16 Q So your answer is no, am I correct, ma'am?

17 A Yes.

18 Q When did you get to New York?

19 A Sunday evening.

20 Q And you flew in from Cal ifornia during the day

21 sometime on Sunday?

22 A All day Sunday.

23 Q Did the United States Government give you money to
24 take that air trip?
25 A No.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2663
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 Q They are going to reimburse you, though; am I

2 correct?

3 A On my expenses, I think, yes.

4 Q When you say on your expenses, I take it we're

5 talking about all your expenses associated with your trip;

6 am I right?

7 A I'm not sure what you are including in the blanket

8 "all."

9 Q Let me go through them one step at a time.

10 From Sunday night when you got here, you've been

11 staying in a hotel, correct?

12 A That's right.

13 Q Staying over here in the Marriott in Uniondale?

14 A Yes.

15 MR. WHITE: Objection, Your Honor.

16 THE COURT: Yes, sustained. Strike i t out. The

17 jury is instructed to disregard it.

18 Let's not get into that. The hotel is

19 sufficient.

20 BY MR. JENKS:

21 Q You are staying in a hotel, correct?

22 THE COURT: No more of that.

23 Q The government has agreed to pay for your lodging; am
24 I correct?
25 MR. WHITE: Objection to the whole line of

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2664
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1 questioning.

2 THE COURT: Overruled.

3 MR. WHITE: Your Honor --

4 THE COURT: Who is making the objections, you or

5 Ms. Scott?

6 MR. WHITE: I'm sorry I jumped up. I'm sorry.

7 THE COURT: Okay. You want to make the

8 objections or does Ms. Scott?

9 MS. SCOTT: Yes, Your Honor. I objected to the

10 whole line of questioning and I believe you overruled the

11 objection.

12 THE COURT: Well, okay. Go ahead.

13 BY MR. JENKS:

14 Q Would it be fair to say that the government is paying

15 for your lodging, ma'am?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And your meals?

18 A To a certain amount.

19 Q And your transportation back and forth to the

20 airport; am I correct?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Now, would it be fair to say that the first time you

23 heard from anyone in the government concerning Who's Who
24 Worldwide was June 14, 1995 when you received this
25 questionnaire or sometime thereafter?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2665
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 A Yes.

2 Q And you responded and filled out this questionnaire;

3 am I correct?

4 A I did.

5 Q And after you filled out this questionnaire, you sent

6 it back to the government; am I right?

7 A That's correct.

8 Q And would it be fair to say that sometime subsequent

9 to sending back the questionnaire, you received a

10 telephone call from members of the United States

11 Government, right?

12 A That's correct.

13 Q And who was the first person that contacted you?

14 A Attorney Ron White, I believe.

15 Q From the United States Attorney's Office?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And you and he --

18 A No, wait a minute. It may have been Al Pagano. I'm

19 not certain.

20 Q But it was either Al Pagano or Ron White?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And I take it you had a conversation with one of

23 them, correct, when they contacted you?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And can you tell us the sum and substance of the

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2666
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 conversation that you had with either Inspector Pagano or

2 with Mr. White?

3 A They identified themselves as being from the U.S.

4 Attorney's Office and that they were working on a case

5 that Mr. -- A postal inspector in the area had contacted

6 me about that they would be the prosecutors in the case.

7 Q This was the first telephone call that you got,

8 correct?

9 A I believe so.

10 Q Did they tell you that it was a criminal case that

11 you would be testifying in?

12 A I don't remember that.

13 Q Did they tell you that people, that it was their

14 feeling that people have been defrauded by the company or

15 by various people of the company?

16 A No.

17 Q Did you ask them what kind of case it was?

18 A I figured it would be a postal inspector case. That

19 is what they referenced.

20 Q Did they tell you they were prosecuting various

21 members of the company that you had paid money to?

22 A No.

23 Q Okay.
24 When you got this letter, by the way, is th is the
25 only letter you got, this letter dated June 14, 1995 from

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1 the postal inspector?

2 A Letter from whom?

3 Q From the United States postal inspector.

4 A Yes.

5 Q When you got this letter, you received a cover letter

6 with it; am I correct?

7 A I don't remember that.

8 Q All right.

9 Is the cover letter there on top?

10 A (Indicating) Is that what you mean?

11 Q Yes.

12 That is your writing on 3500-RR-1?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Your writing is in fact at the bottom of that cover

15 letter, correct?

16 A If that's the cover letter, yes.

17 Q So you did in fact receive a letter along with that

18 questionnaire addressed to "dear postal customer;" is that

19 correct?

20 A Yes.

21 Q You read that letter; am I rig ht?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Did you understand that by reading that letter that
24 Who's Who Worldwide was the subject of an investigation by
25 the United States Postal Inspection Service?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q Okay.

3 Now, after you had this conversation, I take

4 it -- and I'm trying to get the sequence of things, how

5 long thereafter when you received this letter did you have

6 a conversation with a member of the government?

7 A I don't know.

8 Q Six months, a year?

9 A I don't know.

10 Q You have no idea when the first time is?

11 A No.

12 Q You remember the substance of the conversation

13 though; am I correct?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And it was either with Mr. White or with Mr. Pagano,

16 correct?

17 A Yes.

18 Q How long did the conversation take place?

19 A You mean how long did we talk on the phone?

20 Q Yes.

21 A I don't remember.

22 Q You don't remember.

23 Well, you seem to remember a conversation back in
24 1993 with someone from Who's Who Worldwide?
25 A You are asking me for how many minutes it took us to

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1 converse.

2 Q Excuse me, ma'am, I'm not finished with the

3 question.

4 You recall having a conversation with someone

5 from Who's Who Worldwide --

6 A Yes, I do.

7 Q Back in 1993; am I correct?

8 A Yes.

9 THE COURT: Excuse me. You have to wait until

10 the question is over --

11 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

12 THE COURT: -- before you answer.

13 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

14 BY MR. JENKS:

15 Q And you recall very intimate or detailed par ts of

16 that conversation, did you not?

17 A Yes, I do.

18 Q In fact, you recounted them for Ms. Scott when she

19 questioned you, right?

20 A Yes. Can you remember where you were when President

21 Kennedy was killed?

22 Q Okay.

23 A Hey, there are certain events in your life that you
24 remember better than others.
25 MR. JENKS: Judge, I will ask that it be stricken

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1 and the witness be given an instruction just to respond to

2 the questions.

3 THE COURT: Yes, the entire answer given by the

4 witness is stricken. The jury is instructed to disregard

5 it.

6 Ms. Rieger, under our method of proceeding, after

7 the prosecutor questions you then the defense attorneys

8 are permitted to cross-examine you and they can question

9 you with reg ard to very specific things. If you don't

10 remember or you don't know, just say so. But just listen

11 to the questions and try to answer responsively.

12 THE WITNESS: Okay.

13 THE COURT: If you haven't been permitted to

14 answer fully, Ms. Scott is listening to this and she will

15 have another chance to question you if she thinks you

16 haven't been permitted to fully answer.

17 Do you follow?

18 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.

19 THE COURT: In our procedure, cross-examination

20 is very important. Every lawyer has a right to

21 cross-examine the opposing witness.

22 THE WITNESS: As a newcomer to the Court, it is a

23 little confusing to me how they can lead the witness and
24 how others can't.
25 THE COURT: Good thinking. That's what they can

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1 do. They ca n lead and the others can't. You just

2 summarized it better than I do.

3 THE WITNESS: I need an education like that.

4 THE COURT: Well, you're doing very well. Now,

5 just listen to the questions.

6 MR. JENKS: Would you like a cup of water?

7 THE WITNESS: I can go ahead with that. Thank

8 you.

9 BY MR. JENKS:

10 Q There came a time you had a conversation with either

11 Mr. White or Inspector Pagano?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Did you have another conversation with the

14 government?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Before you flew here, correct?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And that was sometime after -- withdrawn.

19 How long thereafter was the second conversation?

20 A Well, it all compressed into the time between

21 probably July of '95 and now.

22 Q Okay.

23 How many conversations would you say all total
24 that you had with members of the Unit ed States Government
25 prior to your flying here from California?

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1 A Probably four.

2 Q And they asked you essentially to volunteer to be a

3 witness; am I correct?

4 A They didn't have to ask me.

5 Q You volunteered to be a witness?

6 A I said I hope I can help you in this investigation.

7 From Dr. Biegelman or Mr. Biegelman's letter, I wrote on

8 there that I hope I could help the investigation.

9 Q But up until the point of receiving anything from

10 Inspector Biegelman, you had not filed any complaints with

11 anyone anywhere, correct?

12 THE COURT: We'll not get into that again. We've

13 covered it three times already in every way, state,

14 federal and otherwise.

15 BY MR. JENKS:

16 Q The four conversations that you say you had

17 approx imately, right --

18 A At least. I had that many.

19 Q At least.

20 A Yes.

21 Q Would it be fair to say that you volunteered to come

22 here to be a witness for the government in this case,

23 correct?
24 A If the government didn't pay for it, I would have
25 gladly paid for it.

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1 Q Did you expect to come here and recoup your $497?

2 A No, that was not the purpose of this visit.

3 Q All right.

4 I want to talk about what you got when you became

5 a member. You received a card in the mail; am I correct?

6 A Yes, essentially.

7 Q A package in the mail from Who's Who Worldwide, is

8 that fair to say?

9 A When are you saying I received this?

10 Q Prior to you becoming a member.

11 A I don't remember that.

12 Q Take a look at the Go vernment Exhibits in front of

13 you. I believe it is 9-D.

14 THE COURT: D for Dog or B for Baker?

15 MR. JENKS: D for Dog, Your Honor.

16 BY MR. JENKS:

17 Q Do you see 9-D?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Is that a card you received in the mail from Who's

20 Who Worldwide?

21 A Yes.

22 Q All right.

23 When you received that card in the mail, would it
24 be fair to say that was the first communication that you
25 had from the company Who's Who Worldwide?

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1 A I do not remember the sequence from that, whether

2 this was first or the phone call was first.

3 Q You are not certain?

4 A No, I'm not.

5 Q But you did fill out this card; am I correct?

6 A I did.

7 Q And this was prior to your sending any money,

8 correct, to Who's Who Worldwide ?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And the card does say there is no charge or

11 obligation on your part for inclusion in the registry,

12 correct?

13 A Correct.

14 Q And you filled out your name Rita Rieger, right?

15 A That's correct.

16 Q And the fact that you were a pharmacist at a student

17 health center in Sacramento, California?

18 A That's right.

19 Q And you on your own sent it back with your return

20 address to Who's Who Worldwide, right?

21 A Right.

22 Q And that was as a result of something that you had

23 obviously received in the mail from California.
24 You got this in the mail?
25 A I would say so.

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1 Q And you filled it out and mailed it back, correct?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And would it be fair to say this was prior to your

4 p urchasing a membership from Who's Who Worldwide?

5 A I don't know that that's the sequence of it, no. I

6 don't know whether I got this before or after I spoke with

7 them on the phone.

8 Q All right.

9 You are not certain then?

10 A No, I'm not.

11 Q Now, there came a time that you spoke with someone on

12 the phone at Who's Who Worldwide, correct?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Several conversations on the phone; am I right?

15 A More than one.

16 Q Did you speak to different people on different

17 occasions?

18 A I'm not certain.

19 Q And you are not certain as to who it was that you in

20 fact spoke to, correct?

21 A I know there was reference to the first call at each

22 time, the reference that I had spoken with, somebody had

23 refreshed my memory, yes, I remember that I spoke with
24 somebody from Who's Who.
25 Q Now, when you agre ed at some point to purchase a

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1 membership, am I correct --

2 A That's correct.

3 Q -- And your testimony was that you were not told

4 after you purchased a membership that you were going to

5 get another bill for $97 for the registry; am I correct?

6 A That was my understanding.

7 Q That was your understanding.

8 Now, when you purchased the membership, you

9 received back from them this invoice, I mean this

10 confirmation or invoice.

11 Take a look at Government's Exhibit 9-E.

12 A Yes.

13 Q You received that in the mail which basically was a

14 confirmation of your becoming a member in Who's Who

15 Worldwide; am I right?

16 A Biographical data, yes.

17 Q In fact, that biographical data that is there in this

18 9-E in evidence, that's biograp hical data that you

19 provided to the company?

20 A Through telephone interview and written, yes.

21 Q This is not something that they made up, this is

22 something that you gave them, right?

23 A Yes.
24 Q I'll ask you to look at 9-E with me.
25 When it says the type of business you are in,

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1 health care, that is correct, right?

2 A Yes.

3 Q When it says "the type of organization," "an acute

4 care university medical clinic," that was correct at the

5 time, right?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And when it says "the area of distribution, "campus"

8 and in visiting students, that was right?

9 A Yes.

10 Q -- And it says "expertise, drug dispensing." Do you

11 see that, right?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Is that drug dispensing because you are a pharmacist?

14 A Correct.

15 Q Parent organization was California State University

16 at Sacramento?

17 A Right.

18 Q Yes?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And it lists various hobbies and sports and books you

21 might like and be interested in, correct?

22 A Yes.

23 Q There came a time you said that you paid your $497
24 and then you got this new bill in the mail for $97,
25 correct, to buy the registry?

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1 A Yes, that came with the registry, yes.

2 Q Take a look at 9-E here for the jury that is in

3 evidence, and take a look up toward the top, the first

4 third of the page.

5 Do you see where the word "details" is? Do you

6 see where it says details?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Do you see right underneath details, it says "one

9 lifetime membership, split billing "? Do you see that?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Take a look again down to the bottom of the page on

12 the left where it says "important information." Do you see

13 that?

14 A Yes.

15 Q It says in that paragraph, does it not, "the final

16 payment of $97 is due in December when the Who's Who

17 registry is released." That's in big printed letters on

18 that Who's Who Worldwide form; am I correct?

19 A Yes.

20 Q When you received this invoice statement, 9-E,

21 shortly after your purchase of the membership, did you

22 call to Who's Who Worldwide and ask them what this

23 additional $97 is?
24 A No. The invoice has the registry listed right under
25 the membership above the $497 total line.

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1 Q But it says "split billing," am I correct, on the

2 invoice?

3 A That's correct.

4 Q That's not a term you would be familiar with as being

5 a pharmacist, would you, split billing?

6 A No.

7 Q And it also says right there, right on the form that

8 you received shortly after the purchase of your membership

9 that the final payment of $97 is due in December when the

10 Who's Who registry is released, correct?

11 A Umm-hmm.

12 Q It says that there, right?

13 A Yes, it says that.

14 Q And it would be fair to say that you received this

15 confirmation or this invoice with all your credentials on

16 it shortly after you purchased the membership, correct?

17 A Probably, yes.

18 Q All right.

19 Well, the invoice dated is 2/4/93; am I correct?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Would it be fair to say that you purchased your

22 membership sometime around early February of 1993?

23 A Yes, I would think so. Before that .
24 Q Right.
25 Well, your credit card was charged, would it be

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1 fair to say, on February 4, 1993?

2 A I don't know.

3 Q All right.

4 Do you have the credit card receipt there in that

5 package?

6 A If you would like I can look for it.

7 Q Let me ask you if you have 9-A there.

8 A No, I do not.

9 Q I'll ask you to take a look at Government's Exhibit

10 9-A (handing). Would that be your credit card receipt or

11 your credit card number for the purpose of Who's Who,

12 ma'am?

13 A It looks like it, yes.

14 Q Was that in fact the amount that was in fact charged?

15 A $497.

16 Q Right.

17 A Yes.

18 MR. JENKS: Is that in evidence, Mr. White?

19 MR. WHITE: No.

20 MR. JENKS: I'll offer 9-A in evidence.

21 MS. SCOTT: No objection, Your Honor.

22 THE COURT: So marked in evidence.

23 (Government's Exhibit 9-A received in evidence.)
24 BY MR. JENKS:
25 Q When was it charged?

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1 A This receipt is dated 2/4/93.

2 Q And what we were looking at which was 9-E in front of

3 you, the invoice date was 2/4/93; am I correct?

4 A That's right.

5 Q And your membership date was 2/3/93, right?

6 A (Perusing.) I don't see that anywhere.

7 Q Well, look at 9-E up on the top. It says effective

8 membership date on the top right-hand corner?

9 A On E, you said?

10 Q Yes.

11 A "Effective membership date, 2/3/93."

12 Q Now, you didn't address initially this $97 issue

13 right away; am I correct? You said you addressed it

14 sometime in the future when you got a statement in the

15 mail, right?

16 A That's correct.

17 Q And I'm going to show you this book, it's a

18 Defendant's Exhibit.

19 MR. TRABULUS: I think the next one would be

20 either O or P, I lost track. Make it O.

21 THE COURT: No, O was used for Identification.

22 MR. TRABULUS: Make it P.

23 THE COURT: My unofficial list tells me that.
24 MR. JENKS: I'm asleep here at this point. What
25 was the exhibit?

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1 THE COURT: P for Peter.

2 MR. JENKS: For Peter.

3 BY MR. JENKS:

4 Q I'll show you what has been marked as Defendant's

5 Exhibit P for Identification and I'll ask you to take a

6 look specifically at page 120.

7 A This is not the copy of the registry I received.

8 Q Okay.

9 I'll ask you to open it up to page 120. Which

10 r egistry -- before we go forward, which registry did you

11 receive?

12 A I received a red one, didn't have anything about

13 Executive Club on it, I believe.

14 Q Let me continue with this and then we'll get to the

15 red one, okay. Take a look at page 120 in here.

16 A Umm-hmm.

17 Q Is your name in this registry here Who's Who

18 Executive Club?

19 A Yes.

20 Q It's on page 120. Do you see it, ma'am?

21 A Yes, I do.

22 Q And that's you, "Rita M. Rieger, Registered

23 Pharmacist;" am I right?
24 A That's right.
25 Q And in this listing let's look at it together. In

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1 the listing it has you as a pharmacist; am I right?

2 A Umm-hmm.

3 Q With the student health center in Sacramento,

4 California.

5 A Right.

6 Q And the bus iness, it shows where you work; am I

7 correct?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And it also shows information about California State

10 University, right?

11 A Umm-hmm.

12 Q Your favorite magazine, the Bottom Line?

13 A Umm-hmm.

14 THE COURT: You have to answer yes rather then

15 make the sound you've been making.

16 BY MR. JENKS:

17 Q FV, favorite vacation, would be Switzerland?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And your hobbies or sports would be music, writing,

20 photography, garden, golf, snow skiing, hiking and

21 bicycling; is that correct?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And this is the information that you provided to
24 Who's Who Worldwide; am I right?
25 A Yes.

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1 Q And your name does appear in this registry,

2 Defendant's Exhibit P, which is Who's Who Executive Club

3 for 1994 and 1995, correct?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Now, you purchased the lifetime membership in 1993;

6 am I right?

7 A Yes, that's what the sheet says.

8 Q You are in here for '94 and '95 under lifetime

9 members?

10 A Right.

11 Q Is there anything in that entry about Rita Rieger,

12 Registered Pharmacist, that is in fact inaccurate or

13 untrue?

14 A No.

15 Q In fact, everything that is in here is information

16 that you had provided to Who's Who, right?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And they gave you a listing in the book under

19 lifetime members in the registry of Who's Who; am I right?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Now, if you just look through here, let's just look

22 with me on this side, just randomly pick a column, okay.

23 You testified that you were dissatisfied with --
24 you didn't feel that the people that were listed in the

25 book were global leaders, is that fair to say?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 A I said I didn't think that they all were.

2 Q Right. You didn't think they all were.

3 Pick any column, pick this column here. Let's

4 start here.

5 Is there an entry for a Roger Rigolli?

6 A Yes.

7 Q He's the president of Blue Ridge Tea & Herb Company,

8 Ltd.?

9 A That's what it says.

10 Q Let's skip down because that is a corporation the

11 next entry. Let's look at David W. Riley. Dr. David W.

12 Riley. Do you see that?

13 A Umm-hmm. Yes.

14 THE COURT: How do you spell Riley?

15 MR. JENKS: R-I-L-E-Y.

16 BY MR. JENKS:

17 Q He's the president of Extrusion Engineers. Do you

18 see that entry?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Joel Rimler, he's the president of Proteus Data

21 Syste ms. Do you see that?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And finally let's do one more or two more entries.
24 Let's look at the next entry in this column. Just a
25 random clinic. Jamie Rindock.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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1 That person is a vice-president of Integra

2 Mortgage Company?

3 A That's correct.

4 Q And finally one last name in this column, that's the

5 same page you are, Beverly S. Rierdon. It says that she

6 is the owner and attorney of the law offices of Beverly S.

7 Rierdon. Do you see that?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And it would be fair to say all of the people that I

10 just randomly selected from a column of the book going

11 down the list are all presidents and/or owners of various

12 businesses?

13 A That's correct.

14 Q And it's your testimony that you were dissatisfied

15 wi th the selection of the members that were contained in

16 that book, is that so?

17 A Titles don't make a person.

18 Q That's true. But it is still your testimony, despite

19 what I've read out loud at random there just picking a

20 column, that those people were not up to snuff, so to

21 speak, to you?

22 A I didn't say those particular people.

23 Q But you did say you felt that the quality --
24 A I thought there were listings that didn't merit being
25 there, is what I said.

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1 MR. JENKS: Your Honor, I will offer Defendant's

2 Exhibit P in evidence.

3 THE COURT: Any objection?

4 MS. SCOTT: No objection.

5 THE COURT: Defendant's Exhibit P for Peter, in

6 evidence.

7 (Defendant's Exhibit P received in evidence.)

8 THE COURT: I think we'll take a recess at this

9 time.

10 Members of the jury, we'll take a ten-minute

11 recess. Please don't discuss the case. Keep an open

12 mind.

13 Please recess yourselves.

14 (Jury exits.)

15 THE COURT: Where is Mr. Dunn?

16 MR. DUNN: I'm right here.

17 THE COURT: Mr. Dunn, did the court security

18 officer speak to your client about using the machinery

19 that he wanted to use?

20 MR. DUNN: They just asked if he would bring it

21 in. He will not bring it in until later.

22 THE COURT: He just asked to bring it in.

23 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, may I make a point while
24 the jury is out. The government would ask in light of
25 Mr. Jenks' questioning you instruct the jury that the

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1 government is required by law to offer reimbursement of

2 travel e xpenses and other expenses to witnesses. They can

3 raise it to the extent they think it creates some bias on

4 the part of the witness but the government is required to

5 do so.

6 THE COURT: I don't know if that is so. I don't

7 think there is anything wrong. In fact, I think it is

8 very usual, proper, ordinary and done all the time for the

9 government to pay for the witness' expenses. Where do you

10 say it is by law?

11 MR. WHITE: I'm pretty sure, Your Honor, that

12 they do. But at a minimum --

13 THE COURT: When I was trying cases I used to

14 bring that out right away that we paid for certain things,

15 right, Mr. White. But I don't know where you say it is by

16 law.

17 MR. WHITE: I'll look it up, Your Honor. But can

18 Your Honor instruct the jury at a minimum that that is the

19 typical custom and practice that all the witnesses are

20 rei mbursed for their expenses.

21 THE COURT: No, I will not instruct the jury to

22 that effect. What I will do in my charge is to say that

23 it is perfectly proper for lawyers on both sides to
24 interview witnesses and speak to them before they
25 testify. That I will say. I will not say anything about

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1 the expenses. If you show -- that's a new one, I never

2 heard that one. However, if you will show me by law the

3 government is required to pay for the expenses, then I

4 will charge the jury to that effect.

5 MR. WHITE: Okay. I'll look at the statute. I

6 thought -- I was under the impression that the government

7 was.

8 THE COURT: It may be, but it may be custom and

9 use. It may be policy. It may not be a statute.

10 MR. WHITE: Well, I know whenever -- well, I'll

11 look it up.

12 THE COURT: Okay.

13 (Recess taken.)

14 THE COURT: You may proceed, Mr. Jenks.

15 BY MR. JENKS:

16 Q Ms. Rieger, I'll show you Defendant's Exhibit Q for

17 Identification, and this is the Who's Who Worldwide Global

18 Edition registry, 1993 and 1994, correct?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Take a look at page 84, the top left-hand corner, the

21 first entry on the page.

22 A That's mine.

23 Q Is that you?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Is all the information that is listed in this caption

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1 enclosed naming of you, accurate and correct?

2 A I don't understand the notation Dist, Fair Oaks,

3 California. That's not -- that's where I lived at the

4 time but it's not where I worked and it is listed under

5 the drug information and dispensing.

6 Q But all the information about your education, your

7 employment, your background, your hobbies, etcetera,

8 that's all fairly accurately listed; is that correct?

9 A Yes.

10 Q All right.

11 Is this the registry that you had actually

12 purchased, this book?

13 A Yes, that's what I received.

14 Q This is the 1993-1994 edition?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And on page 84, it would indicate who the lifetime

17 members were in the book; am I right?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And you were listed as a lifetime member; am I right?

20 A That's right.

21 Q And this is the one you bought and the one you got

22 for the purchase that you made?

23 A Yes.
24 MR. JENKS: All right. I'm going to offer this,
25 Your Honor, Defendant's Exhibit Q for Identification, in

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1 evidence.

2 THE COURT: Any objection?

3 MS. SCOTT: No objection.

4 THE COURT: Defendant's Exhibit Q, for Queen, in

5 evidence.

6 (Defendant's Exhibit Q received in evidence.)

7 BY MR. JENKS:

8 Q Now, Ms. Rieger, you had actually sent biographical

9 data to Who's Who Worldwide about who you are in your

10 background, right?

11 A Yes.

12 Q That's Government's Exhibit 9-F in evidence.

13 A Yes.

14 Q You see that, right?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And that's in evidence. It says "Dear sirs, please

17 change the biographical data on Rita M. Rieger, to read as

18 follows. . ." Do you see that?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And there it proceeds to list your business, your

21 education, your hobbies, your favorite vacation place.

22 You see all of that, right?

23 A Yes, that was a correction to the invoice.
24 Q Right.
25 So l et me make sure I understand that when you

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2692
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 said it is a correction to the invoice. The invoice is

2 9-E, right?

3 A Yes.

4 Q That's the invoice, right?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And that's the invoice --

7 A Actually that is a copy of 9-B, it looks to me like.

8 They are both dated 2/4/93.

9 Q Well, do you have 9-B in front of you?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And look at 9-B then.

12 A Yes.

13 Q After you got 9-B, okay, you then sent to Who's Who

14 Worldwide your biographical data, right?

15 A 9-B is the top copy of 9-E, right?

16 Q Yes, that's the invoice.

17 A Yes.

18 Q So you received 9-B, the invoice and then you sent

19 off your biographical --

20 A Corrections to it.

21 Q Corrections, right?

22 A On the biographical data.

23 Q The corporation, Who's Who Worldwide, when they got
24 your biographical data, they put it in the book, it's in
25 that book, the red book you bought, right?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2693
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 A Yes.

2 Q It's in there, correct?

3 A Yes.

4 Q You would agree with me? I mean, I'm standing here a

5 while cross-examining you, you are an educated woman,

6 right, you have a Bachelor of Science degree from Idaho

7 State University?

8 A Yes.

9 Q You are an articulate woman, you would agree with

10 that?

11 A I agree with what in fact?

12 Q That you are an articulate person, right?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And you are well-traveled. You've been to

15 Switzerland, I take it, if it's your favorite vacation

16 place, correct?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And you work in an acute care fa cility at the time in

19 a medical clinic of a State University in California,

20 right?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And you had no problem whatsoever reading or writing

23 or understanding English, right?
24 THE WITNESS: I'm supposed to be polite but he's
25 supposed to be sarcastic. Yes, I can read and write

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2694
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 English.

2 THE COURT: He can be what he wants to be as long

3 as he doesn't step out of line. He hasn't done that yet.

4 But it is obvious to everybody in the courtroom he's that

5 way, so, you know, he can be that way if you think he's

6 that way. I can't stop him.

7 A Yes, I can read and write English.

8 Q I'm a nice guy. I'm not trying to be sarcastic,

9 okay. I'm just asking you questions about your

10 biographical background.

11 A Thank you for your clarification.

12 Q There's nothing personal between you and me, you

13 understand that?

14 A I'm with you, I think.

15 Q All right.

16 Now, with all this background and so forth that

17 you have, how was it that you say that you were able to be

18 taken by being sold a registry or a membership in a group?

19 A I had other honors in my lifetime and this seemed

20 quite similar at the outset.

21 Q When Ms. Scott had questioned you, she asked you, one

22 of the questions, what's the most important reason to

23 purchase a membership? Do you remember that? Do you
24 remember her asking you that question?
25 A I don't think those were her exact words, but okay.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2695
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 I get the gist of it.

2 Q And you answered, and it's the jury's recollection

3 that controls , but you answered "the fact that I had been

4 nominated." Do you recall saying that?

5 A Yes. That someone nominated me.

6 Q Wouldn't it be really true to say, with all the

7 kidding aside, the reason a person purchased a membership

8 in one of these directories or registries is for vanity or

9 for ego reasons?

10 A That's pretty hard to deny.

11 Q Wouldn't that really be part of a reason to buy a

12 book to see your name in there as a Who's Who --

13 A No, not altogether.

14 Q But that would be one of the reasons?

15 A It could influence it, yes.

16 Q So in other words, you pay a certain price, like

17 everything in life, you pay a certain price for something,

18 correct? In this case you pay a certain price for vanity,

19 right?

20 A I didn't view this as a vanity publication.

21 Q Well, not even a little bit to see your name in

22 print?

23 A No, I had seen my name in print a lot of times
24 before.
25 Q But everything I had just read from your biographical

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2696
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 data would indicate to me as an objective person that you

2 deserve to be in a Who's Who Worldwide registry based on

3 your career achievements and background? Would you agree

4 with that?

5 A No, not compared to the others in the registry.

6 Q Except you have 35 years experience, right?

7 A Closer to 40.

8 Q Closer to 40 years experience.

9 You work at a university, you've had a lot of

10 high expenses, you have a Bachelor of Science degree and

11 you are a Registered Pharmacist, correct?

12 A That's right.

13 Q And there's a lot of drugs by all of these

14 pharmaceutical companies on the market, right?

15 A Umm-hmm. Yes.

16 Q Pharmacy is a complex thing to understand, right? I

17 mean, you just don't go work in a pharmacy and start

18 dispensing prescription drugs, do you?

19 A No.

20 Q So you would not agree with me when you say you are

21 exactly the person who should be in a Who's Who registry,

22 and that's essentially --

23 A I thought I might qualify as the reason it is listed
24 at all.
25 Q Would you agree with the statement that you are the

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2697
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1 kind of person who should be in that Who's Who registry?

2 A Probably not when I look at other peoples' buying

3 fees.

4 Q But you don't think your buying fee is good? Your

5 background is not good?

6 A Yes, I think it is.

7 Q You feel that you should be in a Who's Who, no?

8 A Yes.

9 Q So what you did yo u paid a certain amount of money to

10 get into a Who's Who; am I right? $497, right?

11 A Plus 97.

12 Q Plus 97.

13 You got in a Who's Who, correct?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And they put your biographical data in the book as

16 they said they would, right?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And you got a book, correct?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And all that biographical data was listed in the book

21 as a lifetime member and several books that are here,

22 right?

23 A Yes.
24 Q Except now as you sit here you are not too happy
25 about spending $490 plus $97 for the book?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2698
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 A That's correct.

2 Q Did you ever buy something in your life where after

3 you bought it you said why did I do this? Besides this.

4 Did you ever do anything in your life with -- withdrawn.

5 Did you ever go into a store and purchase

6 something and then an hour later after you get home you

7 say to yourself, what did I buy this for?

8 A Yes, and I've been refunded my money.

9 Q But not always, correct? Sometimes you buy something

10 where there is no refund, right?

11 A I can't think of a time like that.

12 Q Did you ever ask -- now that we're talking about

13 refunds, did you ever ask Who's Who Worldwide for a refund

14 of your money at any time?

15 A No.

16 Q So why would -- withdrawn.

17 You never asked them to give you back the $497,

18 did you?

19 A I asked them not to bill me anymore.

20 Q But you did not ask them to give you back the $497?

21 A No, I had agreed to do that.

22 Q Okay. You had voluntarily agreed to purchase some

23 membership in a Who's Who directory; am I right?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And when you go t your membership in the directory,

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2699
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 you were disappointed, so to speak, with the product,

2 right?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Well, that happens every day, correct? You buy

5 something and you are disappointed from the product?

6 A No, not for me.

7 Q You go and buy a Zenith TV and you get it home and

8 you don't like it.

9 A Only if it didn't work or it wasn't proposed what it

10 was advertised to be.

11 Q Did you ever purchase something and you were

12 disappointed in what you've purchased?

13 A I thought I just answered that.

14 Q That doesn't mean that you didn't get any value for

15 what you paid for; is that right? You would agree with

16 that?

17 A If it's something that doesn't do anything for me, it

18 isn't worth a penny.

19 Q Just becaus e it doesn't do anything for you, doesn't

20 mean that it doesn't have any value; am I right?

21 A I couldn't agree with that.

22 Q All right. Let's move on then.

23 Besides the book, all right, you got a plaque; am
24 I correct?
25 A Yes.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2700
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 Q Did you put the plaque up anyplace in the office?

2 A No, I didn't.

3 Q But you received a plaque?

4 A Yes.

5 Q And that was part of your bargain as well as the book

6 that you would get for your payment?

7 A Yes.

8 Q And you got a logo also?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Did you use the logo at all?

11 A No.

12 Q When you became a member you got the plaque right

13 away within a couple of weeks of becoming a member?

14 A I don't think so.

15 Q How long did it take?

16 A It seems like i t arrived late.

17 Q Which came first, the registry or the plaque?

18 A I think the registry did.

19 Q You think the hard bond volume came first?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Did you get a magazine called Tribune magazine?

22 A I believe so.

23 Q Did you look at them?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Did you take advantage of any of the benefits and

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2701
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 services offered inside of those magazines?

2 A Yes.

3 Q But you did receive a magazine as being a member?

4 A I think two of them.

5 Q And you weren't charged any fee for that?

6 A I don't think so, no.

7 Q Did you get a logo or -- withdrawn.

8 You said you got some kind of a leather thing or

9 some kind of thing from the company with their logo on it?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And what was that?

12 A Pocket orga nizer.

13 Q Did you use that at all?

14 A No.

15 Q Never put up the plaque, not a day?

16 A Not a day.

17 Q That's after you had got it?

18 A I had heard -- with.

19 MR. DUNN: Read it back, please.

20 (Record read.)

21 THE COURT: The rest of the answer is stricken.

22 The jury will disregard it.

23 BY MR. JENKS:
24 Q From Who's Who Worldwide, did you remember all the
25 items that you were promised when you bought a membership

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2702
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 in the company in Who's Who?

2 A Not without paying an additional $97.

3 Q But you did receive all of the items that you were

4 promised; am I right?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And in addition I'm going to go back to the statement

7 where you said the most important reason to purchase the

8 membership was th e fact that you had been nominated,

9 correct?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And I want you to take a look just -- withdrawn.

12 Did you tell anyone else that there were other

13 reasons why you purchased the membership besides the fact

14 that you had been nominated?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And would curiosity be one of them?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And that was curiosity to see who else was in the

19 book?

20 A Curious to see who nominated me.

21 Q What about did you see who nominated you?

22 A I couldn't see that as a matter of curiosity.

23 Q Look at Government's Exhibit 3500-RR-1, and flip to
24 question 25.
25 A Yes.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2703
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1 Q Do you see that?

2 A Yes.

3 Q The question says -- withdrawn.

4 MR. JENKS: I'm sorry, Your Honor. It's not in

5 evide nce.

6 Q Would you read question 25 to yourself and read the

7 answer and let us know if there are other reasons besides

8 being nominated to what made you purchase a membership?

9 A I answered that, that I was curious who else might be

10 in the publication.

11 Q Did you also say that you were curious as to what

12 their achievements were?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And so there was other reasons that you purchased the

15 registry besides the fact that you had been nominated,

16 your curiosity as to who was in it and what their

17 achievements were was another factor that lead to you

18 buying this book; am I right?

19 A That's true.

20 Q Okay.

21 Because you said that in the form that the

22 government gave you to fill out, right?

23 A Yes.
24 Q And I asked you if you received all the items that
25 you expect and you said yes, correct?



OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2704
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1 A Yes.

2 Q And you said you didn't put the plaque up for a day;

3 am I right?

4 A That's correct.

5 Q Would it be a fair statement to say that you told the

6 government in their questionnaire that the address book

7 and the printing template seemed like "quality items but

8 it didn't seem like the whole thing was worth the money I

9 paid"?

10 A That's correct.

11 Q But some of the items were quality items, correct?

12 A They seemed like quality items.

13 Q Well, you said that in your own words "they seemed

14 like quality items," correct?

15 A Yes, but seeming and being are not necessarily the

16 same, are they?

17 Q But that happens every day in life when you go to a

18 department store like Sacks Fifth Avenue, you get a couple

19 spills o n there from time to time?

20 A Yes.

21 Q And times it seems like a quality item but you don't

22 get exactly what you paid for?

23 A I don't think it is fair to compare sweaters and
24 books.
25 Q The point I'm trying to make is that every person in

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2705
Rieger-cross/Jenks


1 the course of a lifetime at one point or another, you

2 would agree with me, buys something that you are not happy

3 with and you feel like you got ripped off, correct?

4 A I suppose, yes.

5 Q But that doesn't mean that you were defrauded into

6 buying it, does it?

7 A It could.

8 Q But it doesn't, per se, mean that you were defrauded

9 into buying it, correct?

10 A It depends how the product was represented.

11 MR. JENKS: All right. I have no further

12 questions, Your Honor.

13 (Continu ed.)

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23
24
25

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2706
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 CROSS-EXAMINATION.

2 BY MR. TRABULUS:

3 Q Good afternoon, Ms. Rieger. My name is Norman

4 Trabulus and I'm representing Mr. Gordon.

5 A What did you say your name is?

6 Q Norman Trabulus.

7 A Spell your last name.

8 Q T-R-A-B-U-L-U-S.

9 A Thank you.

10 Q I'm here on behalf of Mr. Gordon.

11 Do you know who Mr. Gordon is?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Did you ever speak to him as far as you know?

14 A Not that I know of.

15 Q Before you ever came here to New York to testify,

16 have you ever seen him?

17 A No.

18 Q Had anyone whoever identified himself as Bruce Gordon

19 ever spoken to you?

2 0 A Yes, there was a Bruce Gordon, MD in Sacramento for a

21 while.

22 Q And so I take it that what you heard about Bruce

23 Gordon, you heard from either Mr. Pagano or --
24 A I didn't hear anything about Bruce Gordon until I got
25 here.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2707
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 Q All right.

2 You mentioned that you received a card in the

3 mail and I think that was 9-D. Do you have that with you

4 there?

5 A (Handing.)

6 Q Do you recall if at the time you received this, you

7 received a cover letter with it?

8 A No, I don't recall that.

9 Q You don't recall one way or the other?

10 A No.

11 Q Now, you gave some answers before, and let me see if

12 I recall them correctly. I think you said when you

13 received the directory, something didn't look right, the

14 people who were in it didn't seem to be, I think you said

15 they didn't seem to be Global Business Leaders; is that

16 right? Do you recall that?

17 A Something to that effect, I think.

18 Q And I think also in response to some questions by

19 Mr. Jenks that were just put to you, you said that you

20 didn't think you belonged in that directory?

21 A I'm ambivalent about that.

22 Q Ambivalent. Okay.

23 When you opened the directory and saw that the
24 people were not Global Business Leaders, were you
25 surprised?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2708
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 A Yes.

2 Q Now, when you had these telephone conversations

3 concerning your own inclusion, did anybody --

4 A With whom?

5 Q Well, I don't know with whom. You've testified to

6 some telephone conversations concerning your own possible

7 in clusion and I'm really not sure with who exactly you

8 spoke but there were some people you talked about. You

9 said you had a conversation initially and a couple other

10 conversations which referenced at least the first

11 conversation --

12 A You are talking about applying for membership?

13 Q Right.

14 A Okay.

15 Q As opposed to the conversation later down the road

16 where you talked about whether or not you would have to

17 pay the $97, okay.

18 A Okay.

19 Q Now, did any of the people who you spoke to at that

20 point tell you that -- well, withdrawn.

21 Do you regard yourself as a global business

22 leader?

23 A I've been in leadership positions.
24 Q Do you regard yourself as a global business leader,
25 whatever that term means?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2709
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 A Not at present.

2 Q Do you believe at sometime in the past you were a

3 global business leader?

4 A Yes.

5 Q And what do you interpret global business leader to

6 mean?

7 A Someone who has either traveled globally with their

8 business or is involved in making international business

9 decisions.

10 Q Now, from the entry that you saw in this book

11 concerning yourself, which I think you said was accurate;

12 is that correct?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And in fact, you yourself had revised; is that

15 correct?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Would you in reading that entry about yourself, if

18 you didn't know who yourself was -- I'll rephrase the

19 question.

20 If you read that question and it didn't say Rita

21 Rieger but it said James Smith, would you know that James

22 Smith was a global business leader?

23 A No.
24 Q In reading the entries concerning the other people in
25 that book, did you have any more reason to believe that

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2710
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 they were not global business leaders any more than you

2 would have been if you had read your own entry?

3 A Some yes, some no.

4 Q So there were some people in there, at least some who

5 could be global business leaders as much as you could,

6 right?

7 A Yes.

8 Q And that would include, for example, people who were

9 listed as a president or CEO of companies?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Did you ever -- withdrawn.

12 When you got the book, did you go through it in

13 detail?

14 A I looked quite extensively for the person who would

15 have nominated me.

16 Q Did anyone tell you before you got the book, that if

17 you got the book you would find in it somebody who

18 nominated you?

19 A They said that the person who had nominated me was a

20 member of Who's Who Worldwide.

21 Q Did they tell you there would be some way in

22 connection with you ordering a book where after that

23 somebody would reveal to you that the name of a person who
24 had nominated you would be in there?
25 A I know from the people that I know and associate with

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2711
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 that someone would have written in and said

2 congratulations if they had nominated me for that.

3 Q You are saying if someone would have nominated you

4 they would have written and said congratulations?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Whether or not you had bought the book yourself?

7 A Pardon me?

8 Q Would the person who would have written and said

9 congratulations have writte n to you even if you didn't buy

10 the book?

11 A I don't know.

12 Q And did they tell you in the conversation that if you

13 bought the book they were going to notify the person who

14 nominated you that you had bought the book?

15 A No.

16 Q Did you read through the entire book to see whether

17 there was anybody in it whose name -- withdrawn.

18 When you got the book, did you read through the

19 entire book to see whether or not you knew initially who

20 was in the book?

21 A I looked for a recognition of names, yes.

22 Q Were there a couple of people you looked for or did

23 you look through the entire book to see if there was
24 anybody you knew?
25 In other words, did you have any particular names

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2712
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 in mind to look through the book to see if the re were any

2 names in it that you knew?

3 A Yes.

4 Q How many?

5 A Four or five.

6 Q And there were four or five people who you might have

7 suspected that may have nominated you?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And you were disappointed when you didn't find their

10 names in the book?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And that's when you first became unhappy with the

13 book?

14 A No.

15 Q You weren't happy with the book before that?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Before you seen the book?

18 A Yes.

19 Q So that unhappiness had nothing to do with whether or

20 not you had been nominated or not?

21 A I don't follow that.

22 Q Until you checked out to see whether those people

23 were in it or not, you would have no way of knowing
24 whether or not they had nominated you, right?
25 A No.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

2713
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 Q You would have known.

2 A You are suggesting on one hand they may or may not

3 have been in the book.

4 Q Ma'am --

5 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, move to strike.

6 THE COURT: Motion granted.

7 Do you want to repeat the question, please.

8 MR. TRABULUS: Yes.

9 BY MR. TRABULUS:

10 Q I think what I had asked you, if I may just repeat a

11 couple of questions.

12 You testified that you looked through the book

13 for four or five names; is that correct?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And you didn't find them?

16 A Right.

17 Q And upon not finding them you were disappointed

18 because that signified to you that no one of those four or

19 five people had nominated you?

20 A Yes.

21 Q You said you were also disappointed with the book

22 even before you had done that?

23 A Yes.

24 Q So when you were disappointed with the book even
25 before you had done that, you were disappointed about

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2714
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 something else besides the fact that these people hadn't

2 nominated you; is that correct?

3 A No.

4 Q Yes or no?

5 A I can't answer it because I don't understand you.

6 THE COURT: Okay. These questions call for a yes

7 or no. If you can't answer yes or no, say so. You don't

8 have to answer.

9 THE WITNESS: How do you say it?

10 THE COURT: I can't. You can say I can't answer

11 that yes or no.

12 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

13 MR. TRABULUS: I'll try again.

14 THE COURT: Excuse me. At any time you can't

15 answer a question with a yes or no, say so.

16 THE WITNESS: Okay.

17 BY MR. TRABULUS:

18 Q Ma'am, I'll try it again.

19 Before you looked to see these four or five

20 people in the book, you didn't know whether they were

21 members or not, right?

22 A Right.

23 Q And you didn't know -- withdrawn.
24 I assume the way you figured out that they
25 weren't the ones who nominated you, you looked in the book

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2715
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 and didn't see them listed and therefore figured they

2 weren't members, right?

3 A Yes.

4 Q And if they weren't members they couldn't have

5 nominated you, right?

6 A That was my understanding.

7 Q Now, before you looked for those four or five people

8 in the book, you didn't know whether they were members or

9 not, did you?

10 A No.

11 Q And you didn't know whether or not any one of them

12 could have nominated you, right?

13 A Yes.

14 Q But you were still disappointed with the book,

15 correct?

16 A Yes.

17 Q At that point in time you didn't know whether they

18 had nominated you or whether anybody had nominated you,

19 right?

20 A I had been told that I was nominated by someone.

21 Q But you had no cause for disappointment at that point

22 with respect to nomination, correct?

23 A I can't answer that.
24 Q Well, you testified that you were still disappointed
25 about the book that the point, isn't that correct, before

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2716
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 you even checked out those four or five people, right?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And is what disappointed you -- well, withdrawn.

4 Now, when you looked through the book, did you

5 make any kind of notation as to the number or percentage

6 of people who had certain types o f titles?

7 A No.

8 Q Do you have any idea as to how many people in this

9 book are shown as being either the president or the chief

10 financial officer or vice-president of a company,

11 something along those lines?

12 A No.

13 Q I think you indicated a title doesn't make the person

14 and I think we can all agree, is that fair enough?

15 A That's correct.

16 Q But at the same time certainly from the information

17 that you have here, you might be able to tell something

18 about the type of people here by the title, would that

19 also be fair to say?

20 A The type of people?

21 Q Well, the type of work that they do.

22 A You know what their occupation is.

23 Q Okay.
24 And within the type of business that they work,
25 you might also be able to tell something about their

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

2717
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 position, whether they were an executive, whether they

2 were at the top of a company, whether they were a

3 laborer. Would you tell that from the listings?

4 A Yes.

5 Q In going through the listings, did you find

6 insufficiently many people of a high executive type

7 position?

8 A I didn't study it for that reason.

9 Q I think you testified that -- let me ask you. Was

10 this the first Who's Who that you've ever been included

11 in?

12 A No.

13 Q I think you had indicated, although the answer may

14 have been stricken, that you had been in several times of

15 the Who's Who of American Colleges and Universities?

16 A Who's Who of American Students in Colleges and

17 Universities twice.

18 Q Did you buy the book?

19 A There wasn't a book.

20 Q Was there any type of a publication?

2 1 A Might have been, I don't remember.

22 Q Was that a Marquis publication?

23 A I don't remember.
24 Q Do you know whether you have ever been included in
25 any Marquis publication?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2718
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 A No.

2 Q You don't know either way?

3 A I don't know.

4 Q Now, before you got the book, this book, Exhibit Q,

5 nobody came to take your picture, did they, and they

6 didn't ask you to submit a picture, did they?

7 A Right.

8 Q So when you got the book you didn't expect to see any

9 picture in it yourself?

10 A Right.

11 Q You basically just expected to see a listing; is that

12 correct?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And you also were told there would be other people

15 who would be listed in the book?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And so you expected to see othe r listings as well; is

18 that correct?

19 A Yes.

20 Q In fact, that's what you saw?

21 A Yes.

22 Q A bunch of listings?

23 A Yes.
24 Q And the book was nearly complete, there were some
25 affiliations not listed in terms of organizations, but

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2719
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 aside from that it was pretty much everything about

2 yourself that you had put down, correct?

3 A Yes.

4 Q And it was comparable to the other listings that were

5 shown here for other people in terms of the type of things

6 that were in it?

7 A Content, yes.

8 Q And you were asked some questions by Mr. Jenks about

9 whether you had ever bought something and had been

10 disappointed with it afterwards; is that correct?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And have you bought things sight unseen before?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And when you bought this, when you ordered this book

15 and joined the membership, did you have a visual image of

16 what the book was going to look like?

17 A Probably.

18 Q And did it -- did it compare to this?

19 A Yes.

20 Q It was similar to this?

21 A Yes.

22 Q This basically looked the way you expected it to

23 look; is that correct?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Did anybody in any of those first three

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2720
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 conversations, and when I say three it could have been

2 more, you testified I think about three, where you made

3 the decision to buy the book and to become a member, did

4 anybody mention the availability of a CD ROM, the

5 software?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Did they describe to you what might have been

8 advantages in pu rchasing that?

9 A It would be listings in those.

10 Q Did they tell you that it was free or it was an extra

11 charge? Do you recall?

12 A I don't remember that we discussed it.

13 Q Did you decide that you wanted it or that you didn't

14 want it?

15 A I did not order it.

16 Q Did anybody tell you that the CD ROM might be useful

17 for networking?

18 A I don't remember.

19 Q Did they explain to you that if you had the CD ROM

20 you could just input certain criteria and generate a list

21 of members who met that criteria?

22 A I don't remember that.

23 Q In the nature of your work as a pharmacist, do you
24 ever have occasion now to use CD ROMs?
25 A I do now.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2721
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 Q Back in 1993 were you familiar with what CD ROMs

2 were?

3 A Yes.

4 Q And were you aware that they can contain a

5 substantial database of information?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And were you aware that if a computer or if the CD

8 ROM has on it a program or a search engine as sometimes it

9 is called, you can sometimes access that data by different

10 types of categories or parameters?

11 A Yes.

12 Q Do you recall anybody in any of these conversations

13 explaining to you that would be an additional advantage to

14 purchasing the CD ROM, that it would give you additional

15 flexibility in utilizing the information in the directory?

16 A I don't recall that.

17 Q Do you recall what selling points at all were

18 advanced to you as a basis for suggesting that you

19 purchase the CD ROM?

20 A No.

21 Q Was networking something of interest to you? I think

22 you --

23 A Yes.
24 Q And you wanted to netw ork not so much with people in
25 the pharmaceutical or health care profession but people

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2722
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 who were interested in writing?

2 A That's correct.

3 Q Of course you knew that your own hobbies were one of

4 the things that would be included in the directory?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And in fact, your hobby of writing was included in

7 the directory?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And so it would be fair to assume -- withdrawn.

10 People you wanted to network with, would they be

11 publishers or other members or both --

12 THE COURT: Do you want to slow down,

13 Mr. Trabulus, please?

14 MR. TRABULUS: Sorry.

15 BY MR. TRABULUS:

16 Q Now, do you recall whether there was any price for

17 the CD ROM that was quoted to you?

18 A No.

19 Q Now, when you called, when you have a conversation

20 concerning the additional payment for the book, had you

21 already received the book, the bill for the book?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And the thrust of your conversation at that point was
24 that you thought you shouldn't have to pay extra for it
25 because it should have been included?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2723
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 A Yes.

2 Q It wasn't that you wanted to pay extra for it because

3 you didn't like it?

4 A I can't answer that.

5 Q You don't remember.

6 A I think those two ideals are hard to separate.

7 Q Did you ask for a refund?

8 A No.

9 Q Did the person tell you in speaking to you, did the

10 person who spoke to you explain to you that indeed your

11 original invoice had indicated there was an extra or an

12 additional $97 payment?

13 A That they said it was a split billing, yes.

14 Q Do you have a clear recollection of all of the things

15 that were told to you in the three conversations that you

16 had when you decided to buy the book, I mean to become a

17 member?

18 A Of course not.

19 Q Not of everything, okay.

20 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, I would like to

21 publish this invoice to the jury, but before I do that.

22 Q The one that you actually received, was it the yellow

23 one or the pink one?
24 A Both.
25 Q You received both the yellow and the pink?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2724
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 MR. TRABULUS: I would like to publish them to

2 the jury.

3 THE COURT: What is "them"?

4 MR. TRABULUS: These are 9-B and 9-E.

5 THE COURT: Very well.

6 BY MR. TRABULUS:

7 Q Do you recall Mr. Jenks read to you, befo re doing

8 that, a portion which said the final payment of $97 is due

9 in December when the Who's Who registry is released?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And that appears down here, does it not?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And that's the largest, except for the words Who's

14 Who at the top and bill to and ship to, that is in the

15 largest type that appears on the entire document; is that

16 correct?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And now when you got that, you didn't call back Who's

19 Who and tell them there was some kind of misunderstanding,

20 did you?

21 A No.

22 Q Did you ever attempt to use the directory that you

23 received to locate other people who had an interest in
24 writing or who were in the publishing business?
25 A No.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2725
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 Q Did you try to do it?

2 A No.

3 Q Did it occur to you at any point there might be

4 people in that book who were interested in writing or who

5 were interested in publishing?

6 A Yes.

7 Q But you never looked to see whether they were there?

8 A I looked to see it but didn't utilize it.

9 Q Did you find any?

10 A I think so.

11 Q How many did you find?

12 A I don't remember.

13 Q Were you shy to contact them?

14 A No.

15 Q Were you contemplating contacting them by telephone

16 or by mail at the point when you first decided to look?

17 A Neither.

18 Q You just were looking to see whether or not there

19 were those people without thinking about actually

20 contacting them?

21 A I can't really answer that.

22 Q Well, was it kind of in the back of your mind you

23 would look around and see if they were in the book and if
24 you found them maybe you would contact them? Was that
25 kind of a general thought?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2726
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 A That was before I bought the book.

2 Q After you got the book you said you did look through

3 it to see if there were people in publishing and/or

4 writing, correct?

5 A For a cursory glance.

6 Q And you found some?

7 A Yes.

8 Q And but you say you never contacted them; isn't that

9 correct?

10 A No, there are better ways to contact people.

11 Q Well, when you say that there are better ways to

12 contact people, if there were better ways you knew that

13 before you order ordered the book, right?

14 A No.

15 Q But when you got the book, there was -- withdrawn.

16 When you ordered the book, did you think that it

17 would enable you to contact people other than through a

18 listing which was comparable to the one you gave?

19 A Can you repeat that, please?

20 Q Yes.

21 When you ordered the book, did you think that you

22 were going to be able to utilize it to contact people in

23 either publishing or writing?
24 A That thought entered my mind.
25 Q And did you understand when you got the book the only

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2727
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 information that you would have that would relate to

2 people in publishing or writing, would be through listings

3 which contained information comparable to the kind of

4 listing that you had approved for yourself; is that

5 correct?

6 A Biographical data of people, yes.

7 Q And when you went through the book and found

8 biographical data concerning people who were either in

9 publishing or interested in writing, you found ba sically

10 listings comparable to the one you had yourself?

11 A I don't remember that.

12 Q They were different?

13 A I don't remember that.

14 Q When I say comparable, I don't mean --

15 A That wasn't my focus after I received the book.

16 Q When you say there were better ways to contact

17 people, before you got the book -- withdrawn.

18 When you ordered, when you joined Who's Who but

19 before you got the book, did you know that there were

20 better ways than from the book?

21 A No.

22 Q When you got the book you realized there were better

23 ways, is that what you're saying?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And was there any respect in which the book failed to

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2728
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 meet your expectations in setting forth a way in which to

2 contact people?

3 A By th at time my friends had told me.

4 MR. DUNN: Objection.

5 MR. TRABULUS: Move to strike, Your Honor.

6 A No, I can't answer that.

7 Q Ms. Rieger, I will show you Defendant's Exhibit P.

8 If you can just hold onto it for a moment. If you will

9 bear with me for a moment, I will turn on my laptop

10 computer.

11 Ms. Rieger, when you were interested in people

12 who were in writing, was that basically the scope that you

13 were interested in, writing?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And would those be people who had a hobby of writing,

16 a business in writing or both?

17 A Both.

18 Q Was there a particular geographical area that you

19 were interested in or nationwide?

20 A Probably California.

21 Q Okay.

22 Would it be fair to say you were also interested

23 in publishing?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Would you be good enough to type in the word



OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2729
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 "publishing."

2 A (Witness complies.)

3 Q Now, I'm going to make -- you left out the letter "i"

4 there. It's a small keyboard.

5 And that was next to something on the screen that

6 says type of business, correct?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Now, next to the word "state --"

9 MS. SCOTT: Objection, Your Honor. This is an

10 item not in evidence.

11 THE COURT: Well, I don't think that -- I don't

12 know what counsel is going to do, but -- what do you

13 intend to do with that, Mr. Trabulus?

14 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, what I will do is

15 generate a list on the screen and ask her to look on the

16 screen for names on the list. That's what I will do.

17 THE COURT: Are you objecting to that? If he

18 shows her --

19 MS. SCOTT: I object to reading some thing that is

20 not in evidence.

21 THE COURT: Reading from something not in

22 evidence.

23 MR. TRABULUS: I'll withdraw it, Your Honor.
24 BY MR. TRABULUS:
25 Q Have you just typed in the letters "CA"?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2730
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 A Yes.

2 Q Okay.

3 MR. TRABULUS: Forgive me. I made a mistake

4 myself. Bear with me for a moment.

5 I've just typed in publishing and CA again.

6 Do you see a list on the screen?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Would you pick out -- as a matter of fact, I better

9 move down.

10 I don't know if this is a fair question, but

11 approximately how many different names do you seem to be

12 seeing here?

13 A I don't know.

14 Q Okay.

15 The list that you've seen has gone from A to Z.

16 A Yes. From A to Z, yes.

17 Q And i f you want me to go up or down a page or

18 whatever, I'll ask you to just randomly select any one or

19 more entries and we can look in that book and see whether

20 it is there.

21 A Entries from where?

22 Q Well --

23 A The name of the company?
24 Q The list of names and there is a company listing to
25 the side, correct?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2731
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 A Yes.

2 Q And to the side of that there is an indication "CA,"

3 correct?

4 A Yes.

5 Q So we can pick out any one of those. Do you want to

6 pick one?

7 A I don't understand what we're doing.

8 Q We don't have to hook up a printer, but would you

9 like to pick a name.

10 Do you want to do that one?

11 A Sure.

12 Q And the name we'll look up as Christian Thorson.

13 A Fibromyalgia Network.

14 THE COURT: How do you spell that name?

15 THE WITNESS: T-H-O-R-S-O-N. Fibromyalgia

16 Network.

17 BY MR. TRABULUS:

18 Q We may have to look in several different places in

19 that book so bear with me.

20 Is fibromyalgia something that you are familiar

21 with in your work as a pharmacist?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And that's a medical condition; is that correct?
24 A Yes, it is.
25 Q Okay.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2732
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 Do you find a listing here for Christian E.

2 Thorson?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Can you read the page?

5 A 787. Writer and publisher, Fibromyalgia Network and

6 it gives the address.

7 Q Were you interested in the subject -- withdrawn.

8 Were you interested yourself about writing about

9 fibromyalgia?

10 A No.

11 Q But the subject fib romyalgia was something that you

12 were interested in?

13 A It caught my eye.

14 Q Because it was something you were interested in?

15 A Correct.

16 Q And you were interested in getting in touch with

17 people who were writers; is that correct?

18 A At one point, that's correct.

19 Q And when you spoke to the people who were speaking to

20 you in these first three conversations, do you recall

21 telling them that you were interested in networking?

22 A No.

23 Q Okay.
24 Did they say anything to you about networking?
25 A I can't remember.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2733
Rieger-cross/Trabulus


1 Q Did it occur to you in connection with the discussion

2 of the CD ROM that they gave to you, that it might be

3 possible through use of the CD ROM to find other members

4 who were, one, interested or in volved in writing and also

5 who were involved in a particular subject matter or

6 matters that might have been of interest to you?

7 A They mentioned networking which I would assume would

8 include those things, so --

9 Q Do you recall asking any of the people who you spoke

10 to who were talking to you about buying the product or

11 becoming a member? Do you remember asking them about how

12 you would actually go about networking?

13 A No.

14 Q When you got the Tribune magazines, do you recall

15 looking through them to see whether there was anything in

16 there that might pertain to writing or publishing?

17 A No, I did not.

18 Q Did you look through them to see if there was

19 anything in there that might pertain to networking?

20 A No, sir.

21 Q Anything relating to any conferences or meetings that

22 might be attended that would relate to that networking?

23 A No.
24 MR. TRABULUS: I have no further questions.
25 (Continued.)

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2734
Rieger-cross/Schoer


1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. SCHOER:

3 Q Good afternoon, Ms. Rieger.

4 A Good afternoon.

5 Q I would like to try to clarify --

6 A You didn't tell me who you are.

7 Q I'm not sure that I have to tell you who I am.

8 May I ask you a question, please?

9 The exhibit that you have in front of you, the

10 card --

11 A This one?

12 Q Yes, ma'am.

13 When you received that card, did it have a stamp

14 on it?

15 A I don't know.

16 Q Okay.

17 And can you look at that card and does it

18 indicate what date is postmarked on it?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And what date is that?

21 A 1992.

22 Q December of 1992; isn't that cor rect?

23 A Yes.
24 Q And does that refresh your recollection that you must
25 have received that card before you spoke to anyone on the

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2735
Rieger-cross/Schoer


1 phone?

2 A No.

3 Q You looked at the other exhibit, the invoice, and it

4 indicated that your membership started on February 3,

5 1993; isn't that correct?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And does that refresh your recollection that you must

8 have received the card before you spoke to anyone on the

9 phone?

10 A No.

11 Q Okay.

12 Now, in February of 1993, that was the first time

13 that you gave your credit card to someone to join this

14 membership; isn't that correct?

15 A Please repeat the question.

16 Q In February of 1993, February 3rd or so, that's when

17 you gave your credit card to someone to purchas e this

18 membership; is that correct?

19 A Yes, from the dates, that's what it says.

20 Q And soon thereafter you received an invoice; isn't

21 that right?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And there were two parts to that invoice and you made
24 certain corrections on one part and returned that to Who's
25 Who Worldwide; isn't that correct?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2736
Rieger-cross/Schoer


1 A Yes.

2 Q Okay.

3 And it wasn't until the end of the year 1993 that

4 you received this second invoice for the split billing,

5 the $97; isn't that right?

6 A I'm not sure when that arrived.

7 Q Did you have any copies of that second invoice?

8 A (Perusing.) I don't know.

9 Q The documents that you have in front of you, did you

10 provide those to the government?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And when you provided docu ments to the government,

13 did you provide any additional documents other than the

14 ones that you have seen today?

15 A No.

16 Q Okay.

17 So as far as you know, looking through your

18 records, you never found the invoice for the second $97

19 expenditure; isn't that correct?

20 A I did just the other day.

21 Q You found it?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Do you know what date that was?
24 A No.
25 Q Do you have that with you?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2737
Rieger-cross/Schoer


1 A No.

2 Q When you say you found it the other day, it's in

3 California?

4 A That's correct.

5 Q Is it fair to say that you didn't receive the

6 registry, the book until almost a year after you

7 originally signed up for membership?

8 A I don't know.

9 Q In any event, between the time that you got that

10 first invoice and the time that you got the second

11 invoice, you didn't make any complaint to anyone, did you?

12 A No.

13 Q You didn't call the company and ask for a refund, did

14 you?

15 A No.

16 Q And after you received the book, did you call the

17 company and ask for a refund?

18 A No.

19 Q Now, you said on direct examination that you received

20 some newsletters; is that right?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And are the newsletters you are talking about

23 magazines similar to this (handing)?
24 A Yes.
25 Q So this is -- would you call this a newsletter or

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2738
Rieger-cross/Schoer


1 would you call this a magazine?

2 A Probably a magazine.

3 Q Okay.

4 And you say, I think, that you received maybe two

5 of those; is that correct?

6 A I think that is correct.

7 Q Do you know looking at those four that I've shown

8 you, do you have any idea which two you might have seen?

9 A No.

10 Q Do you remember what year it was you received these?

11 A No.

12 Q Do you remember reading the magazine when you got it?

13 A No.

14 Q You didn't look at it at all?

15 A I looked at it.

16 Q Did you look at the member profiles that were in the

17 magazine?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And were those the kind of people that you would

20 think belonged in a Who's Who?

21 A I don't remember.

22 Q Okay.

23 Did you look at the benefits that were provided
24 as they were listed in the magazine?
25 A No.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2739
Rieger-cross/Schoer


1 Q Did you take advantage of signing up for a Hilton

2 Head seminar?

3 A No.

4 Q Did you take advantage of getting savings on your

5 long distance telephone calls?

6 A No.

7 Q Did you take advantage of getting savings with

8 respect to Airborne Express?

9 A No.

10 Q When you traveled, did you use the Med Jet service?

11 A No.

12 Q Did you take advantage of getting a credit card at --

13 with no fee for the first year and with reduced rates for

14 the first year?

15 A No.

16 Q Did you take advantage of an investment portfolio in

17 getting additional interest on certificates of deposit?

18 A No.

19 Q Would you say that all those kinds of things were

20 benefits that could be used by someone if they wanted to

21 use them?

22 A I don't know.

23 Q But you didn't bother to try to use any of these
24 things, did you?
25 A No.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

2740
Rieger-cross/Nelson


1 MR. SCHOER: I have no further questions. Thank

2 you.

3 THE COURT: Anybody else?

4 MR. NELSON: Yes.

5 CROSS-EXAMINATION

6 BY MR. NELSON:

7 Q Good afternoon, Ms. Rieger.

8 A Good afternoon.

9 Q My name is Alan Nelson.

10 A Thank you.

11 Q Ms. Rieger, the gentleman who was questioning you

12 before me asked you about the Tribune magazines which were

13 in front of you at this time.

14 Am I correct those magazines were all sent to

15 you, at least they are dated 1994 and 1995?

16 You can take a look at the front of the

17 magazines.

18 A I don't know if I received all of them or not.

19 Q Am I correct that the ones you may have received are

20 all from 1994 and 1995?

21 A Yes, that's the date on these. Yes.

22 Q Now, you received the registry around the beginning

23 of 1994; is that correct?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q Well, either the end of '93, the beginning of '94, in

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2741
Rieger-cross/Nelson


1 that time-frame; is that right?

2 A It had to be before 10/94, because that's when I

3 moved.

4 Q Other than your contact with Who's Who to complain

5 about having to pay the additional $97, you did not

6 contact the company for purposes of registering any form

7 of complaint with the product from 1994 through 1995; is

8 that correct?

9 A That's correct.

10 Q And as when you spoke to Mr. Jenks, you never made

11 any complaints to the Better Business Bureau or to any law

12 enforcement authorities with respect to Who's Who

13 Worldwide's product; is that correct?

14 A Correct.

15 Q There did come a point in time, however, in I believe

16 it was June of 1995, where you received a questionnaire

17 and cover letter from Postal Inspector Biegelman; is that

18 correct?

19 A Correct.

20 Q And would I be correct in stating that that was the

21 first time you became aware of the fact that the company

22 Who's Who Worldwide was under investigation?

23 A Yes.
24 Q Now, when you received that letter, you completed a
25 questionnaire and you sent a questionnaire back to

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2742
Rieger-cross/Nelson


1 Inspector Biegelman; is that right?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And you used that questionnaire for purposes of

4 refreshing your recollection, correct?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And when you received that questionnaire, the cover

7 letter that came with it, you also wrote on; is that

8 correct?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And in that cover letter am I cor rect or do you

11 recall that you stated to Inspector Biegelman and I'll

12 direct your attention to the second page of 3500-RR-1,

13 approximately three quarters of the way down the page, do

14 you recall having stated "I would love to know how it was

15 brought to light"?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Now, after you sent in this questionnaire, I believe

18 it was your testimony that you either spoke to Assistant

19 United States Attorney Ronald White or postal Inspector

20 Pagano or Inspector Biegelman or one of the other postal

21 inspectors shortly after or a month or two after you sent

22 in the questionnaire; is that correct?

23 A I don't remember the time-frame.
24 Q It was some point in time after June of 1995 and
25 today?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2743
Rieger-cross/Nelson


1 A Yes.

2 Q And you've had the oppo rtunity to speak with those

3 individuals on more than one occasion since the time that

4 you sent in the questionnaire; is that correct?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And would I be fair in stating that you had the

7 opportunity to speak with Ms. Scott for some period of

8 time between Sunday night's arrival in New York and your

9 testimony here today?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And you went over what your testimony was going to

12 be?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And you reviewed the questionnaire that you have in

15 front of you at this time?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Did the government ever advise you, and when I say

18 the government, I'm speaking about Mrs. Scott, Mr. White,

19 Mr. Pagano, or any of the other individuals that you met

20 with, that the investigation came to light as a result of

21 a tip-off being given to the government by Reed Elsevir,

22 the publisher of Marquis ' Who's Who, who was the major

23 competitor at the time of Who's Who Worldwide Registry?
24 A No, they did not.
25 Q Were you ever apprised by any of these individuals

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2744
Rieger-cross/Nelson


1 working for the government that another source of their

2 information which allowed this to come to light was by an

3 individual by the name of Steve West?

4 A No.

5 Q Did they ever tell you that Steve West was a

6 convicted felon for having published or attempted to have

7 published a registry which he virtually never sent to any

8 of his members and subsequently pled guilty to the federal

9 crime of mail fraud?

10 A No.

11 Q Did they ever tell you that in order to avoid having

12 to go to prison, it was necessary for Mr. West to provide

13 substantial assistance to law enforcement personnel i n the

14 prosecution of other individuals to keep himself out of

15 jail?

16 A No.

17 Q And did they ever tell you that that was the source

18 of information that brought to life the nature of this

19 fraud that the government claims it to be?

20 A No.

21 MR. NELSON: Thank you. I have no further

22 questions.

23 THE COURT: Anybody else?
24 MR. GEDULDIG: I have one or two.
25 (Continued.)

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2745
Rieger-cross/Geduldig


1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. GEDULDIG:

3 Q Ms. Rieger, my name is Martin Geduldig.

4 A Thank you.

5 Q I'll test you later and ask you to spell it.

6 This red book is the one you actually got into

7 first; is that right?

8 A Yes.

9 Q That's called Who's Who Worldwide -- I'm sorry.

10 Could you tell us what the title of that title

11 is?

12 A Who's Who Worldwide Global Edition.

13 Q Okay.

14 THE COURT: Is that Defendant's Exhibit Q, for

15 Queen?

16 MR. GEDULDIG: I believe it is, Judge.

17 BY MR. GEDULDIG:

18 Q Is there a sticker on there?

19 A Looks like it.

20 Q At the time that you applied for membership in the

21 Who's Who Global Edition, you were then working as a

22 pharmacist; is that right?

23 A That's correct.
24 Q And a pharmacy run by one of the State Universities
25 in the State of California?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2746
Rieger-cross/Geduldig


1 A Yes.

2 Q How long had you been working there?

3 A How long?

4 Q At that point how long had you had that job?

5 A About eight years.

6 Q Eight years.

7 A Umm-hmm.

8 Q What did you do before that job?

9 A 1 4 years at Sutter Hospital, Sacramento.

10 Q Did you ever work overseas?

11 A No.

12 Q Have you ever been sent overseas by any of your jobs

13 relating to the pharmaceutical work you were doing?

14 A Yes.

15 Q When was that?

16 A I don't remember the year.

17 Q It was quite a while ago?

18 A Sometime back.

19 Q More than ten years ago?

20 A From now?

21 Q Well, from then.

22 A No.

23 Q Would you consider yourself to be globally involved
24 in the field of pharmaceuticals?
25 A I was at the time.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2747
Rieger-cross/Geduldig


1 Q When you applied for that membership?

2 A No.

3 Q And you hadn't been for some number of years?

4 A Right.

5 Q So would I be correct in saying when you asked to

6 become a member of the Who's Who Global Edition, you had

7 no expectation or no belief that you were involved in any

8 kind of a global business effort or professional effort;

9 is that right?

10 A No.

11 Q I'm correct or I'm wrong?

12 A You're wrong.

13 Q You did think at the time you applied for membership

14 in the Global Edition --

15 A I --

16 Q Let me finish my question.

17 A Sorry.

18 Q You did believe at the time you applied for

19 membership in the Global Edition that your job was somehow

20 globally involved?

21 A No.

22 Q Okay.

23 So would I be correct in saying that your
24 application for membership in that edition, that Global
25 Edition, really did not reflect at the time that you

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2748
Rieger-cross/Geduldig


1 applied for the membership, your professional or your

2 employment position at the time?

3 A No.

4 Q No what?

5 A I don't think -- I think that being, being in

6 pharmacy is a global thing, medications the way they come,

7 but --

8 Q But you weren't doing any kind of international

9 research, were you?

10 A No.

11 Q You weren't treating patients in Bangladesh, were

12 you?

13 A No.

14 Q Or dispensing pharmaceuticals to patients in

15 Bangladesh?

16 A No.

17 Q You weren't going on tours related to pharmacy or

18 relating to your job?

19 A I had.

20 Q I know you had, but that had been years before,

21 right?

22 A Yes.

23 Q So when you applied for membership in that edition,
24 at that time your job was local. You were giving pills to
25 students, right? Basically, I mean, I'm not trying to

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2749
R ieger-cross/Geduldig


1 demean your position.

2 A Yes, but that is completely tangential.

3 Q My point is you realized when you applied for that --

4 A But --

5 Q Let me just finish my question.

6 When you applied for membership in that Global

7 Edition, you would be in there with other people similar

8 to yourself?

9 A I didn't have the Global Edition. I don't remember

10 ever hearing these words until this book came to me.

11 Who's Who Worldwide, it did not say Global Edition.

12 Q All right, Who's Who. Let's kind of restrict it to

13 Who's Who.

14 You were not doing anything that might be

15 considered international, right or wrong?

16 A I could have been nominated by someone from somewhere

17 else in the world.

18 Q Well, then you should not have been upset to learn

19 that other people situated just like yourself or even in

20 positions that were not as important or required the

21 education that you had, might also be nominated by

22 somebody from England or Russia or someplace like that; is

23 that right?
24 A That's true.
25 Q So there were other people in that book that you're

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2750
Rieger-cross/Geduldig


1 unhappy with, that you were listed with, they could have

2 gotten in that book the very same way you believed you had

3 gotten in that book, right?

4 A I'm sure a lot of them thought they did, yes.

5 Q So it is not -- when you say you were unhappy with

6 being listed in that book with other people that you

7 didn't feel belonged in that book --

8 A This is getting away from what I said, I think. I

9 think it is being taken out of context.

10 Q Well, what we'll do then we'll rely on the record.

11 We' ve got this gentleman here. When we talk slow enough

12 he gets everything down we say. We'll just rely on the

13 record.

14 MR. GEDULDIG: I have nothing else.

15 THE COURT: Anything else?

16 (Continued.)

17

18

19

20

21

22

23
24
25

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2751
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. NEVILLE:

3 Q How do you do? My name is Jim Neville.

4 A Thank you.

5 Q Ma'am, you stated that you had various telephone

6 conversations with salespeople at Who's Who, right?

7 A Yes.

8 Q And --

9 A Well --

10 Q More than one, you said?

11 A Perhaps. I wasn't sure it was always the same

12 person.

13 Q And when you responded to Postal Inspector

14 Biegelman's questionnaire about your experience here, you

15 stated that you thought you remembered speaking to

16 somebody by the name of Michael?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Just to go back. When you first had this

19 conversation with this individual, this was really five

20 years ago to the day today, right, February 2, 1993?

21 A I don't know when in 19 -- when I talked with a

22 person on the phone. I don't remember that.

23 Q You may have it in front of you, ma'am, the invoice
24 that was sent to you. I believe --
25 A No, it was in the jury box.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2752
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 Q Oh, I see.

2 Take a look at 9-E, Government's Exhibit 9-E, and

3 up in the right-hand corner there do you see a date there

4 "membership." The effective date or something like

5 that.

6 A Yes, 2/4/93. In fact, the membership date, 2/3/93.

7 Q So it is fiv e years ago to the day, give or take,

8 that you had this conversation with this individual,

9 right?

10 A From now?

11 Q Today.

12 A Yes.

13 Q The 3rd of February, 1998 it is, right?

14 A Correct.

15 Q You were here yesterday for a little while yesterday

16 and some things happened and you came back today, right?

17 A Correct.

18 Q When you first started to testify yesterday, you had

19 mentioned, did you not, that you remembered, you thought

20 you remembered somebody by the name of Michael, speaking

21 to somebody by the name of Michael?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Today, correct me if I'm wrong, you kind of rehashed
24 or went over again that first part of your testimony?
25 A Yes.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2753
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 Q And tell me if I'm wrong, but today I thought I heard

2 you say more about that person's name. You spoke about

3 interposing last names and word association?

4 A That's correct.

5 Q And you said you weren't sure if it was a first name,

6 right?

7 A Right.

8 Q Or maybe part of a last name?

9 A Right.

10 Q You didn't say that yesterday, did you?

11 A No, I didn't say that yesterday.

12 Q Between the time that you -- withdrawn.

13 Before you testified yesterday, you had had

14 conversations with Ms. Scott, right, about your testimony?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And she prepped you for your testimony?

17 A Yes.

18 Q She went over the questions she would ask you, right?

19 A Yes.

20 Q So you would know what she would ask you and there's

21 nothing wrong with that. That's what happened, there is

22 nothing wrong with that, right?

23 A Yes.
24 Q After you testified yesterday, when your testimony
25 was interrupted you then had more conversations with

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2754
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 Ms. Scott, didn't you?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And she again discussed your testimony and prepared

4 you for your coming back today and explaining?

5 A Very briefly.

6 Q Now, you are affiliated with many organizations.

7 A Yes. Familiar.

8 Q Gamma Phi Beta?

9 A Yes.

10 Q What is that?

11 A Social sorority.

12 Q Rho Chi.

13 A Yes.

14 Q APHA.

15 A American Pharmaceutical Association.

16 Q SVPHA.

17 A Sacramento Valley Pharmaceutical Association.

18 Q Gold Star Wives. You are a member of that?

19 A Widows of military men, yes.

20 Q People-to-People. Goodwill ambassador.

21 A Yes.

22 Q Public radio.

23 A Yes.
24 Q Now, are y ou aware that some, if not all, of those
25 organizations use mailing lists to contact their members?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2755
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 A That's not how I got into them.

2 Q Did you get into being a participant in public radio

3 by anything other than just by showing interest in this?

4 A They are Tampa-affiliated radio stations.

5 Q When you discovered that you had been nominated for

6 possible membership in Who's Who Worldwide, the

7 organization sounded valid to you, right?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And have you ever heard of Who's Who in America?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And something that is also known as Marquis Who's

12 Who?

13 A I don't remember that name involved with it. I have

14 heard of Who's Who publications.

15 Q Those are the real Who's Who publications, right?

16 A I don't know.

1 7 Q Well, there are Who's Who publications that you

18 consider legitimate, right?

19 A I thought this was too.

20 Q Okay.

21 Now, with those Marquis Who's Who or Who's Who in

22 America, there are no tricks there, right, people get in

23 there because they should be in there, right?
24 A I can't answer that.
25 Q The publishers of those Who's Who in America are

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2756
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 publishers that are merely doing a public service to

2 publicize people deserving to be in that registry?

3 A I can't answer that.

4 Q There is no profit motive involved at all for Who's

5 Who in America?

6 A I can't answer that.

7 Q Now, do you know what the word "Marquis" means?

8 A No.

9 Q Do you know that Marquis is a nobleman in Europe with

10 a ranking above an earl but below a count and below a

11 duke?

12 A No.

13 Q When Marquis Who's Who puts out a publication, are

14 they saying that everybody in there is not as good as a

15 duke but as good as an earl or a count?

16 A I don't know.

17 Q Did you know, ma'am, that Marquis Who's Who using

18 mailing lists to solicit new members?

19 A No.

20 Q Do you know that Marquis Who's Who uses some of the

21 same sales techniques that were used at Mr. Gordon's

22 organization?

23 A No.
24 Q Did you know, ma'am, that Marquis Who's Who now uses
25 CD ROMs and membership upgrades?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2757
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 A No.

2 Q Did you know, ma'am, that Marquis Who's Who sued

3 Who's Who Worldwide and successfully put Who's Who

4 Worldwide out of business?

5 A No.

6 Q You got a membershi p that you paid for, right?

7 A Yes.

8 Q And had you taken the effort to look in that book, to

9 find people that you might want to network with, you could

10 have done that, right? You chose not to?

11 A That's my understanding today, yes.

12 Q Tell me if this makes sense, ma'am. If I'm a

13 business person and let's use you as an example. You are

14 a pharmacist?

15 A Yes.

16 Q You get your Marquis book, excuse me, your Who's Who

17 Worldwide book.

18 A Yes.

19 Q And you decide that you want to change jobs, okay.

20 A Okay.

21 Q That you want to go somewhere else and work as a

22 pharmacist elsewhere. You open up your book and you look

23 in there and you see other people that might be in that
24 line of work and you network with them, you call them to
25 see what is around.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

2758
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 Is that something that you might do?

2 A No.

3 Q Is that something that a person might do even though

4 you wouldn't have done that?

5 A Can't answer that.

6 Q How about if I'm a business person and I contact

7 somebody else in this registry, and by that one contact I

8 end up getting a multi-million dollar contract and the

9 stock of my corporation goes way up.

10 Does that make my investment of 500 bucks in that

11 registry worth it?

12 A I don't know.

13 Q Now, you spoke about people in the book and how they

14 didn't really seem to measure up to what kind of person

15 that should be in a Who's Who, right?

16 A I believe I mentioned something to that effect.

17 Q If I told you that the senior U.S. economist for

18 Toyota Motor Corporation Services North America was in

19 there, would that pers on qualify to be in a Who's Who for

20 business people?

21 A I don't know.

22 Q How about the president and dean of the General

23 Theological Seminary of the Episcopal Church.
24 A I don't know.
25 Q How about the president and CEO of Izod, you know

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2759
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 with the alligators?

2 A I heard about it.

3 Q How about the chairman of the board and the CEO of

4 the Coca-Cola Company?

5 A I don't know.

6 Q Would that -- you may not drink Coca-Cola but would

7 you consider that guy or gal probably makes a good buck

8 and is a pretty important person?

9 A Probably locally enterprised.

10 Q Probably sell coke in Paris and probably in China,

11 people like that too.

12 A Umm-hmm.

13 Q How about the president and the CEO of the American

14 Ex press Bank. Is that somebody that might fit the bill of

15 a Who's Who publication?

16 A Yes.

17 Q How about the president and CEO of the Dannon

18 Company, Dannon Yogurt Company?

19 How about Mr. Barbera, the chairman and

20 co-founder of Hanna Barbera, Inc. in California?

21 A I kind of lost track what the original question was.

22 Q Would these people make your grade? Would these

23 people fit the bill of people who would be eligible?
24 A I'm not --
25 Q How about the president and CEO of the board of

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2760
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 Kellogg Company?

2 A I don't know.

3 Q Chairman and publisher of Free American News?

4 A I don't know.

5 MR. NEVILLE: I tell you I know I couldn't get

6 into your book.

7 THE WITNESS: No, I'm saying not that it is mine

8 to decide by these people being published. Who are they?

9 By a name, unless somebody vouched for them.

10 Q I understand. By nomination.

11 Now, you joined to be a lifetime member?

12 A Yes. It seemed less hectic that way when it was

13 presented to me.

14 Q But you had the choice, you could have joined for

15 five years?

16 A Yes, I could have said no to membership.

17 Q You could have said no and you could have joined for

18 three years?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Could have joined for a year?

21 A I don't remember what all of my options were.

22 Q Do you remember you were offered a one-year associate

23 membership for $247?
24 A No.
25 Q How about the three-year membership for $287?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2761
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 A I don't remember.

2 Q Five-year membership for $387?

3 A No.

4 Q The lifetime which you purchased was -- I said $387

5 for the five years, right, I'm sorry.

6 And the lifetime is $587. That's what you agreed

7 to?

8 A $490.

9 Q Okay.

10 The split billing is another issue, but you chose

11 to join for lifetime, right?

12 A For another $113 it seemed like quite a bargain.

13 Q Okay.

14 If you were merely curious as to how you were

15 nominated, couldn't you have just bought an one-year

16 membership or even not bought one and still tried to find

17 out who put you in there? Why did you have to pay all of

18 that money?

19 A Probably didn't.

20 Q Well, look, if you want me to tell you how many times

21 I've purchased something that I then wasn't happy with

22 we'd be up here until next year, but I'm just saying that

23 you made a choice, didn't you, ma'am?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Yo u made a choice and you got a book, your name was

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2762
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 in the book, apparently some other pretty important people

2 are in the book.

3 A My choice was made on information that turned out not

4 to be true.

5 Q Well, I understand --

6 A That makes a difference.

7 Q -- That you are here because you are not satisfied

8 with what you purchased and I accept that, but does that

9 mean that -- withdrawn.

10 The person or persons who made this claim to you

11 or these claims that you say are incorrect, you have no

12 idea who they were, do you?

13 A They are someone who represented themselves as spokes

14 people for Who's Who Worldwide.

15 Q I understand that.

16 But you realize this is a criminal case, right?

17 A No.

18 Q Well, may I tell you that it is a criminal case and

19 the people here are facing criminal charges which means

20 they can go to jail. Did you know that?

21 A No.

22 Q Well, so we are not just talking about money here or

23 slapping somebody on the wrist, we are talking about
24 liberty here. Do you understand that?
25 A Umm-hmm.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2763
Rieger-cross/Neville


1 Q Would it make a difference to you if you come in, and

2 I'm not suggesting anything you've said isn't accurate,

3 but you spoke to various people on the phone, right?

4 A I think that it might have been one or more people.

5 Q And you are not sure what the person's name was,

6 right? You have a vague recollection of Michael's first

7 name or last name, but you are not sure?

8 A Something with the name Michael in it, not that much

9 of it, I'm quite sure of it.

10 Q Based on that degree of certainty in your own mind,

11 would you be satisfied to have someone go to jail, to have

12 someone misrepresenting something to you on the phone?

13 MS. SCOTT: Objection.

14 THE COURT: Sustained.

15 MR. NEVILLE: I'm going to let you get back home

16 to California.

17 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

18 (Continued.)

19

20

21

22

23
24
25

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2764
Rieger-cross/Dunn


1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. DUNN:

3 Q Good afternoon. My name is Thomas Dunn.

4 A What's your last name?

5 Q Dunn.

6 When you got this invoice that stated that there

7 was split billing and there was a statement there of $497

8 due, after that you then put a notation on it and drafted

9 up a letter to Who's Who concerning things ab out you,

10 correct, that you wanted?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And you had received the invoice when you sent that

13 back to Who's Who, correct?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And that was, I think, around February 19th that you

16 dated that letter to Who's Who; is that correct?

17 A I'll check.

18 2/19/93, yes.

19 Q And you are a Registered Pharmacist; is that correct?

20 A Correct.

21 Q And you have to pay very close detail to things that

22 you are preparing to dispense to the public in your job,

23 correct?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And you have to read things closely so you don't make

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2765
Rieger-cross/Dunn


1 any errors; is that correct?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And it's clear -- withdrawn.

4 And you received that invoice before you mailed

5 back that letter on February 19th; is that correct?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q And you stated, I believe, that something doesn't do

8 anything for you if it's not worth a penny; is that

9 correct? Do you remember saying something like that?

10 A Relative to what?

11 Q You made a statement in court today that when you

12 were asked about the registry, that "it doesn't do

13 anything for me if it's not worth a penny." Do you recall

14 stating something to that effect?

15 Yes or no? Do you recall that?

16 A I don't, no.

17 Q Have you ever used terminology like that anywhere?

18 A Well, I said something to that effect this morning

19 but I don't know what it was relative to. Words taken out

20 of context are meaningless too.

21 Q One of the things that you were interested in was

22 networking, correct?

23 A Yes.
24 Q And you didn't make any attempt to network with
25 anyone that w as in that book, correct?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2766
Rieger-cross/Dunn


1 A That's correct.

2 Q And you could have looked at something, for example,

3 that was a publisher, you had an address for that person,

4 written a letter, put a stamp on it, requesting

5 information. You could have done that, correct?

6 A I could, yes.

7 Q You could have looked at the address of somebody

8 where they were located that was in writing or publishing,

9 called information, asked for their phone number if they

10 were listed. You could have done that, correct?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And you didn't do any of those things, correct?

13 A Yes.

14 Q You didn't make a single attempt to network with

15 anyone in that book, right?

16 A Right.

17 MR. DUNN: I have no further questions.

18 THE COURT: Ms. Scott?

19 MS . SCOTT: Yes, Your Honor.

20 (Continued.)

21

22

23
24
25

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2767
Rieger-redirect/Scott


1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

2 BY MS. SCOTT:

3 Q Ms. Rieger, do you remember being asked about how

4 much you remember about your conversation with a

5 salesperson in 1993?

6 A On the question, no.

7 Q Do you remember Mr. Jenks asking you questions about

8 how is it that you remember your conversation back in

9 1993?

10 A Yes.

11 Q How is it that you remember that conversation?

12 A I received a questionnaire about it within two years

13 of when it happened.

14 Q Is there anything about the conversation itself that

15 was memorable to you?

16 A Well, yes, that I had been nominated by someone who

17 thought I was worthy of an honor of this scope. An honor

18 of this size.

19 Q Why is it that you remember something like that?

20 MR. JENKS: Objection.

21 THE COURT: Sustained.

22 BY MS. SCOTT:

23 Q Now, do you remember being asked questions by
24 Mr. Jenks about who was paying your expenses for this
25 trip?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2768
Rieger-redirect/Scott


1 A Yes.

2 Q And do you remember testifying that you would have

3 paid your own way?

4 A Yes.

5 Q If you had to.

6 A Yes.

7 Q Why is that?

8 MR. JENKS: Objection.

9 THE COURT: Overruled.

10 A Because I think that it's an issue of morality to

11 have duped people, misleading them into what they were

12 getting for their money. It's the principle involved in

13 it.

14 Q Now, do you remember being asked by Mr. Jenks about

15 the titles of peopl e that appeared in that book?

16 A Yes.

17 Q I'm talking now about the book Who's Who Executive

18 Club.

19 A Yes.

20 Q And do you remember testifying that titles don't make

21 a person?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Can you tell us what you meant by that?
24 A You can take a list of people and they may be
25 absolute slime as far as their morality or ethics or

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2769
Rieger-redirect/Scott


1 anything else that has to do with making of a character

2 worthy of honest. Could be the biggest sleaze bucket in

3 the world from a mailing list.

4 MS. SCOTT: May I have a moment, Your Honor?

5 THE COURT: Surely.

6 BY MS. SCOTT:

7 Q Ms. Rieger, do you remember testifying that you

8 didn't put your plaque up when you received it?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Can you tell us why that is?

11 A Yes. Because I had heard by then --

12 MR. TRABULUS: Objection, Your Honor.

13 MR. JENKS: Objection.

14 THE COURT: Is it because you heard something

15 from somebody?

16 THE WITNESS: Yes.

17 THE COURT: Okay. Sustained.

18 Do you have plans to go home tonight?

19 THE WITNESS: It has been changed.

20 THE COURT: So you have time.

21 THE WITNESS: Yes, thank you.

22 THE COURT: We'll try to get finished with you

23 tonight, if we can.
24 THE WITNESS: That would be nice, then I could go
25 home early tomorrow.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2770
Rieger-redirect/Scott


1 THE COURT: Okay. We'll see if we can.

2 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

3 BY MS. SCOTT:

4 Q Without telling us what you've heard from other

5 people, can you tell us how it affected your decision to

6 put up the plaque?

7 MR. JENKS: Objection.

8 THE COURT: Sustained.

9 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Am I to answer?

10 THE COURT: No, don't answer.

11 BY MS. SCOTT:

12 Q Now, do you remember Mr. Jenks asking you a lot of

13 questions about purchasing items that were not what they

14 were advertised to be?

15 MR. LEE: Objection to the form of the question.

16 THE COURT: Overruled.

17 A Purchasing items that I was not happy with.

18 Q If in fact your name was selected from a mailing list

19 by Who's Who Worldwide, then did you receive from them

20 what they had represented to you that you had received?

21 A No.

22 Q And what do you mean by that?

23 A What I subscribed to was a book that was comprised,
24 that listed people who had been nominated by members and
25 were thus in my mind vouched for character and would

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

2771
Rieger-redirect/Scott


1 therefore merit honesty.

2 Q Do you remember Mr. Jenks asked you about whether or

3 not you were curious what was in the book?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Do you remember testifying that you looked through

6 that book for people who had nominated you?

7 A Yes.

8 Q At that time did you look through the book for people

9 who had nominated you?

10 A A couple of evenings and I didn't find the original

11 ones that I thought I might have. I looked for others. I

12 looked for a name that might give me a clue.

13 Q Did you look through the entire book?

14 A Somewhat.

15 Q Do you remember Mr. Trabulus asking you why you

16 didn't use the book to contact other people?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And can you tell us why you didn't?

19 A Because I felt like it was worthless at that point.

20 Q Why is that?

21 A Th e organization did not measure up to what I

22 expected from the representation that I had received for

23 it.
24 Q Now, do you remember Mr. Trabulus asking you if you
25 were interested in contacting writers?

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2772
Rieger-redirect/Scott


1 A Yes.

2 Q Now, would you have been interested in contacting

3 writers whose names had been obtained from mailing lists?

4 A No.

5 Q Why not?

6 A Again, it comes to a matter of reference of

7 character. I was taught that you were judged by the

8 company you keep and I would like to know about the

9 company I start to keep.

10 Q Do you remember Mr. Schoer asking you about other

11 benefits that were available through membership in Who's

12 Who Worldwide?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And do you remember him talking to you about

15 discounts on long distance services and a Med Jet service,

16 for instance?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Now, what part, if any, did these services play in

19 your decision to purchase a membership from Who's Who

20 Worldwide?

21 A Nothing. They played no part at all.

22 Q What was the most important thing that affected your

23 decision to purchase membership?
24 MR. GEDULDIG: Objection.
25 THE COURT: Sustained.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2773
Rieger-redirect/Scott


1 BY MS. SCOTT:

2 Q Do you remember being asked questions by Mr. Nelson

3 how the government's investigation of Who's Who Worldwide

4 began?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And do you remember being asked questions about

7 whether you knew that Reed Elsevir had attempted to put

8 Who's Who Worldwide out of business?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And do these allegations by t he defense have any

11 affect on your evaluation whether or not you would have

12 purchased this membership in Who's Who Worldwide?

13 A No.

14 Q Why is that?

15 MR. GEDULDIG: Objection.

16 THE COURT: Sustained.

17 BY MS. SCOTT:

18 Q Now, do you remember Mr. Neville asking you about

19 networking?

20 A Yes.

21 Q And if the members of Who's Who Worldwide had been

22 taken from mailing lists, would they have been the kind of

23 people you would have wanted to network with?
24 MR. GEDULDIG: Objection.
25 THE COURT: Sustained. Repetitive.

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2774
Rieger-redirect/Scott


1 BY MS. SCOTT:

2 Q I would ask you to look at Government's Exhibits 9-B

3 and 9-E, Ms. Rieger.

4 A Yes.

5 Q And could you take a look at the top of those two

6 documents.

7 A Yes.

8 Q And do you see a box that says "approved," about a

9 third of the way down?

10 A I'm missing something here.

11 Q (Indicating.)

12 A Oh, yes.

13 Q Can you read to us what is in that box that says

14 "approved by"?

15 A "SMI."

16 MS. SCOTT: Thank you. No further questions.

17 THE COURT: Anything else?

18 MR. TRABULUS: A little bit.

19 THE COURT: How long will you be, Mr. Trabulus?

20 MR. TRABULUS: About two minutes. Okay.

21 (Continued.)

22

23
24
25

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2775
Rieger-recross/Trabulus


1 RECROSS EXAMINATION.

2 BY MR. TRABULUS:

3 Q Ms. Rieger, if the names of some people in publishing

4 in the directory were taken from a mailing list of

5 executives in the publishing industry, do you believe that

6 those would be an inappropriate group of people for you to

7 be networking with if you were hoping to publish something

8 that you had wrote?

9 A I can't answer that.

10 Q Let me ask you this. During the course of your

11 career and particularly at the university, have you seen

12 various people receive awards?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And has there ever been an instance in which somebody

15 received an award who you felt may really not have been

16 deserving of that?

17 A Yes.

18 MR. TRABULUS: No further questions.

19 THE COURT: Anything else?

20 Very well. You may step down and --

21 MR. DUNN: Your Honor, I have just one or two

22 questions. I apologize for delaying this recross

23 examination.
24 (Continued.)
25

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2776
Rieger-recross/Dunn


1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION

2 BY MR . DUNN:

3 Q Good afternoon again.

4 Those organizations that you listed on your

5 February 19th letter, those are organizations that you

6 belonged to, correct?

7 A I belonged to at the time.

8 Q Okay.

9 Do you belong to them now?

10 A Not all of them, no.

11 Q Which ones do you not belong to now?

12 A I haven't paid my dues in the pharmaceutical

13 association.

14 Q But the other organizations you do belong to?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And isn't it a fact that those organizations use

17 mailing lists for different sorts of things?

18 A I don't know.

19 Q You have no knowledge of that?

20 A No.

21 Q If you found out that those organizations used

22 mailing lists, would you withdraw from those

23 organizations?
24 A No.
25 MR. DUNN: I have no further questions, Your

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COU RT REPORTER
2777
Rieger-redirect/Scott


1 Honor.

2 MS. SCOTT: I have just one question.

3 THE COURT: Go ahead.

4 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

5 BY MS. SCOTT:

6 Q Did any of those other organizations with which you

7 are affiliated claim to you that you've been nominated by

8 an established member?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And have you later learned that any of those

11 organizations used mailing lists?

12 A No.

13 MS. SCOTT: Thank you. No further questions.

14 THE COURT: Anything else?

15 You may step down.

16 THE WITNESS: I'm done?

17 THE COURT: You are finished.

18 THE WITNESS: All right.

19 THE COURT: I mean, your testimony has concluded.

20 THE WITNESS: I'll take it that way.

21 THE COURT: Members of the jury, you want to --

22 unless you want to hear my statements to the jury, you can

23 depart. Just leave it there.
24 THE WITNESS: I will depart. Thank you.
25 Members of the jury, we'll recess until 9:30

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2778

1 tomorrow morning. I repeat my admonition to you not to

2 discuss the case either among yourselves or with anyone

3 else. I imagine the people at home have given up

4 attempting to get something out of you without success or

5 maybe they just don't care, I don't know. All they want

6 to know is when will you get through with this case.

7 Keep an open mind. Come to no conclusions.

8 Now, I hear reports on the radio that there is

9 some kind of storm coming tomorrow. I don't know. I

10 don't know what the nature of the storm is. It may be

11 rain, it may be partially snow, it may be sleet,

12 whatever. We will keep an eye on the weather. We do not

13 want to have you risk anything in co ming here. But it

14 appears to me that it will be all right to come in.

15 As I said, we'll keep an eye on the weather.

16 In the meantime, we'll recess until 9:30 tomorrow

17 morning. Have a nice evening.

18 (Jury exits.)

19 MR. LEE: Your Honor, could we have a direction

20 to Mr. White to instruct Ms. Rieger not to discuss her

21 testimony with any other prospective witnesses. That's my

22 request.

23 THE COURT: To have --
24 MR. LEE: To not discuss her testimony with
25 prospective witnesses that will be called by the

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2779

1 government tomorrow or hence forth because I did observe

2 her during the break discussing with another person who

3 I'm assuming is a prospective witness. I don't know if

4 I'm sure of that but I would respectfully request.

5 THE COURT: Is she still h ere?

6 MR. WHITE: I don't know if her flight is tonight

7 or tomorrow morning.

8 THE COURT: Well, then I would give her that

9 instruction not to have her discuss her testimony with

10 other witnesses.

11 What about the other witnesses, Mr. White?

12 MR. WHITE: For tomorrow we have all the

13 remaining ones that I listed in the last two days who

14 haven't gotten on, plus Mr. Smith.

15 MR. TRABULUS: There are many Smiths.

16 MR. WHITE: The William Smith that I told you

17 yesterday today; Ms. Springer who was interviewed, Mr.

18 Heinbugh, Ms. Beck, Mr. Pierre.

19 MR. TRABULUS: Who is that?

20 MR. WHITE: H-E-I-N-B-U-G-H. He's in the

21 indictment.

22 THE COURT: All right. This doesn't have to be

23 on the record.
24 (Proceedings adjourned.)
25

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2780



1 INDEX

2

3 W E N D I S P R I N G E R ........................ 2502
DIRECT EXAMINATION................................... 2502
4 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION................................ 2509
DIRECT EXAMINATION................................... 2513
5 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION................................ 2534
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION................................ 2555
6 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION................................ 2605

7 R I T A R I E G E R............................... 2627
DIRECT EXAMINATION................................... 2627
8 CROSS-EXAMINATION.................................... 2659
CROSS-EXAMINATION.................................... 2706
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION.................................... 2734
CROSS-EXAMINATION.................................... 2740
10 CROSS-EXAMINATION.................................... 2744
CROSS-EXAMINATION.................................... 2751
11 REDIRECT EXAMINATION..... ............................ 2767
RECROSS EXAMINATION.................................. 2775
12 RECROSS-EXAMINATION.................................. 2776
REDIRECT EXAMINATION................................. 2777
13
EXHIBITS
14

15 Government's Exhibit 9-D received in evidence........ 2633
Government's Exhibits 9-B and 9-E received in
16 evidence............................................. 2648
Government's Exhibit 9-F received in evidence........ 2649
17 Government's Exhibit 9-A received in evidence........ 2680

18 Defendant's Exhibit P received in evidence........... 2687
Defendant's Exhibit Q received in evidence........... 2691
19

20

21

22

23
24
25

OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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This site is concerned with the Who's Who Worldwide Registry tragedy, and the double scandal of government and judical corruption in one of the dirtiest trials of the twentieth century and the concomitant news media blackout regarding this incredible story.

Sixteen weeks of oft-explosive testimony, yet not a word in any of 1200 news archives. This alone supports the claim that this was a genuinely dirty trial; in fact, one of the dirtiest federal trials of the 20th century.

Show your support for justice, for exoneration of the innocent, and perhaps most importantly, government accountability, by urgently contacting your Senator, the White House, and the U.S. Department of Justice.